Sportsplane Rating.............. planes.

[skidmark]

I have not read through all the postings. But where does a Challenger 2 stand amongst this? Do I get the LSA or not?

[Stephan van Tonder]

Don't know - read the posts.....

[Wallaby]

Challenger stays microlight. Empty weight 159kg and MTOW 386. Me gettin' the grips of things now, Stephan

[Stephan van Tonder]

Got it there wallaby thanks - didn't know challenger's specs

[KFA]

Hi Guys, I just read part 67, for the medical requirements and there is no mention of the new lisence anywhere. Do I have an old copy of the legislation or am I missing something??? Everybody says you need a class 4 but I don't see it in the legislation.

[apollolight]

Wallaby you are sure getting it!

Another thing there needs no panic here, the exams for the LSA rating are not like the PPL exams, they are a lot more relevant and practically based....I think many pilots upgrading to LSA will find them fair and educational...and as Stephen points out this will effect you if you have only flown conventional controlled microlights or weight shift and want to upgrade to an LSA aicraft and rating. Converting to or from conventional to weight shift requires the min 10 hours too....

Once you have for example converted to a LSA type aircraft up from your conventional 3 axis, completed the initial 10 hours at least - (maybe more at instructors discretion) and you have the LSA rating there after you will simply complete a conversion and that will be endorsed in your logbook for each new LSA aircraft you wish to convert to. You will not do the min 10 hours each time for each conversion And no the LSA exams are an initial once off - you will not rewrite at each conversion but you will do a technical on each conversion as per usual

Challenger falls in conventional microlight not LSA.... other examples of conventional are Streak Shadow, Thunderbird - LSA examples are Jabiru, Sting, Cheetah

[Stephan van Tonder]

Medical will be class 4 as usual.

[T4flyer]

Thought I was OK with the new regs. After reading this post, now not so sure.

In my case I have an MPL and I fly a Zodiac 601, which is registered as a microlight. In truth, like me, it has gained a little weight and is "a little" over the 260kgs weight limit for microlights. (Ie. illegal)

Will it be possible to re-register it as a LSA, I would really like to fly it legally and will I get and RPL under the grandpa clause when I renew my MPL Licence in June?

[justin.schoeman]

Thought I was OK with the new regs. After reading this post, now not so sure.

In my case I have an MPL and I fly a Zodiac 601, which is registered as a microlight. In truth, like me, it has gained a little weight and is "a little" over the 260kgs weight limit for microlights. (Ie. illegal)

Will it be possible to re-register it as a LSA, I would really like to fly it legally and will I get and RPL under the grandpa clause when I renew my MPL Licence in June?

This is one thing that bugs me too. The new regs say they look at the type of the aircraft only. Now take a Zodiac 601. Some are under 260kg (and therefor microlight), and some are over 260kg (and therefore LSA).

How is RAASA supposed to differentiate between the two based on logbook entries? Must there be separate type designations for the same aircraft type with different empty weights?

[T4flyer]

Justin, that's precisely my problem.

In my own case, my Zodiac 601 is registered as Z147 (microlight) MAUW 450 kgs.

If it had been registered for PPL it would have been Z157 (I think, not 100% sure of the "Z157", I will check tonight) with a MAUW of 540 kgs, same plane, no difference, only registration.

I have been told just stay with the microlight classification, but I know that like a lot of 3 axis microlights out there my plane exceeds the 260kg limit. I thought the new regs would enable those owners like me to get legal and re-register our planes as LSA (in my case MAUW 540Kg and no 260kg requirement) That's what I understood, If I was wrong a lot of planes out there will still be flying illegally! If i was right I will re-register my plane as in LSA, nice and legal , but will I still be able to fly it (RPL by "gran-pa clause) or will I need to start again to get a RPL to continue to fly my own plane?

[Stephan van Tonder]

*sigh again*. RIGHT - if your plane is 'overweight' for microlight then it automatically becomes LSA. It should have been that in the first place most likely but becuase that didn't exist those were basically flown 'illegally'. A lot of planes had a certified all up weight of more than 450kg but were registered in the microlight class becuase they possibly just squeezed in to the lower weight factor but was probably actually not microlight if you looked at the stall speed. Then you basically agreed to fly it under the 450kg max weight which probably never happened either. So I'd say that any 601 with anything bigger than a 582 won't fall in the microlight class. As far as I understand you won't have to re-register your plane and that it will become LSA anyway.
They were talking of basically dropping the Z type classifications in any case.
For year the guys wished their planes lighter - now they wish them heavier

[Morph]

In my own case, my Zodiac 601 is registered as Z147 (microlight) MAUW 450 kgs. If it had been registered for PPL it would have been Z157 ...with a MAUW of 540 kgs, same plane, no difference, only registration.

Please understand something, the plane NOT registered as a Z147 or a Z157. The plane is registered as a Non Type Certified aircraft and has a list of specifications such as empty weight, MAUW, stall speeds etc as given by the manufacturer and as measured by the builder/owner during proving flights. These specs are documented in your Pilot Operators Handbook (POH) and should be kept in the plane. Nowhere on the plane's registration does it give the Z code. The Z-codes are the ratings for your licence, describing the maximum specification you are allowed to fly on your licence. If you have an MPL and a 601 with empty weight < 260Kg, then you can fly it up to a maximum of 450kg and in your log book you will use Code Z147. However if you have a Sport Pilot licence or a PPL then you can fly the same plane up to the either 600kg, or the manufacturer's specification whichever comes first (in this case 540kg). In this case the pilot would use the different code. Training Schools use this to their advantage because the same Cheetah or Jabi, can be used to train MPL and PPL pilots, just by using different codes.

So this means there are NO requirements to reregister the plane as a LSA. It's specifications, and who flies it will determine this.

Skidmark, you can fly your Chally on a sport pilot's licence but since it is well within microlight specifications you will find you are limited to the manufacturers specs, i.e. you will not be able to fly it over 450kg, the plane is not designed for it. In these cases you will find that the plane does not have multiple Z codes.

[T4flyer]

Stephan,

I'm embarrassed to admit you are correct. To be absolutely honest my Zodiac 601, with its heavy type 4 VW motor was never really a microlight. Nevertheless, the previous owner registered it as a microlight and that's what I have flown it as (maybe - sometimes a little over the 450kgs knowing it is designed for a MAUW of 540kgs ) But I am inherently a law abiding guy and have never been happy with the situation at all.

If it automatically becomes a LSA that's great, in fact its bloody fantastic!!
If I automatically qualify for the gran-pa clause and a RPL so that I can fly it, well that's doubly fantastic... Legal at last

Time will tell I suppose, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[T4flyer]

Morph,

Have you ever notice how, with time, simple thing have a tendency to become not so simple

A good few years ago when renewing my ATF the CAA checked my file and told me they don't have a owners handbook on file. I didn't have one either so I made a copy of a friends Zodiac 601 owners handbook. The CAA then informed me I had to change the MAUW from 540 to 450kgs in my owners handbook because my plane was registered as a microlight. this I duly did and all was well... up to now me thinks this simple change may come back and haunt me.

[Morph]

Nope,

At your next Annual inspection, redo the weights and balances, change the page in he book and send through the paperwork for the next ATF. They will update your file.

You see the plane is not registered as a microlight, it's registered with the incorrect MAUW. Once you change it, as long as the empy weight is under 260, and you don't load it over 450kg you can continue to fly it on your MPL.

I have it like this for my Bush Baby. As soon as the sports pilot licence is available then I will do the upgrade and viola fly it to the full capacity.