Help support lobbying SACAA - Please help

[Gadget]

seems something is happening

viewtopic.php?t=6746

[RudiGreyling]

2 More updates 2 in ine day

http://misasa.flyeaaforum.com/?p=452

NTCA News
By Editor | February 29, 2008

I have just had a call from Mervyn Reynolds who informed me that Alex Rudd (MISASA Safety Officer and the AP) collected an Authority to Fly today for a trike from the CAA which was one of their frustrations with the current status quo. This trike has over 300 hrs and was AP’ed as inspected but which was motivated as to not requiring a new crank. It seems that the “pockets” of excellence at the CAA are back in charge. I will post policy changes when they come to hand.

AND
http://misasa.flyeaaforum.com/?p=453

Further NTCA Feedback
By Editor | February 29, 2008

The process towards a decision on the Rotax 582 crank replacement exemption for engines at or over 300hrs has taken a necessary step forward. Requested documentation relating to required information in support of exemption motivations made have been submitted. This done , we anticipate being in a position to offer further feedback on the evaluation process during the course of next week. In essence the ball is now firmly in the hands of the CAA and we hope that our constructive participation towards an equitable solution whilst fully supporting the necessary principle of safe skies will lead to a speedy, equitable and sound decision. I appreciate that the next step, waiting, will be tough for many. Please be understanding and allow the evaluation to run its course.

Ek kan nou met 'n geruste hart more gaan vlieg

[Dobbs]

Guys,

I cannot believe that those in favour of the litigation route are not going into this with their eyes WIDE open, but I have to ask the question - do you really understand what you may potentially be letting yorselves in for?

Just some recent personal experience - I and 9 other microlighters were recently issued with an eviction order as the air field lessor believed that he had the right to evict us from a municipal airfield - so just to defend the case we ended up spending R12 000.00 each, just to hire a legal representative to do all of the paper work and representation. Fortunately we did not even go to court, but we did not get our money back.

Secondly, had this gone to court, there was never any guarentee that we would win the case, and a plausible worst case scenario, we could lose the case, and the judge could dismiss the case with costs against us as defendants, i.e. we were then liable for our costs as well as the "complainant's"!!

I am a MISASA member, I have a 503, and I am concerned - however, I suspect that we will seriously jeopardize our case if we allowed MISASA to become weak and unable to continue to function due to lack of / poor support, and yes I have read all of the comments, most if not all expressing legitimate concerns, but hey, if communication is the biggest problem I am not so sure that justifies the calls to laugh off MISASA

[KFA]

Hi guys, I have also been watching this development with surprise and interest. Litigation costs money, and a whole lot of it. Even if you whin a case with cost you will still end up paying for a part of the bill. By the time this thing gets to court a solution would have allready been found by the Aero club and Misasa and you will end with the bill. This is an absolute last resort action. Support the Aero club and Misasa and their muscle will grow. You will end up having to pay for this and still be a member of an ARO. To take your membership money and throw it into this and think this is all it will cost is rather naive.

[alanmack]

The following post was made on the AVCOM forum where there is a CAA Open Door on 21 Feb. No reply has been posted by the CEO of the CAA as yet. Maybe he needs flowers?

Welcome to the forum Colin - it is great to have you aboard and we trust you will have an enjoyable journey with us. Laughing

What is the strategy regarding NTCA operations in South Africa.?

The perception that has been created by the newly implemented regulations on 1 January, is that the strategy is to kill the grassroots aviation through over regulation.

Some of the examples to support this view:

Maintenance
Owners are now forced to follow their aircraft recommended maintenance schedules. In case of two most stroke powered aircraft this requires an AMO/AP to do some maintenance every 12 hours of operation - this is impractical (owner now precluded from doing this maintenance by the same regulation). Also the TBOs are being strictly enforced by the CAA.

This makes no sense of maintaining the NTCA fleet to the same standard as TCA. At this level our NTCA fleet is maintained more strictly than privately operated TCA aircraft in the USA where owners are allowed to overfly the TBO and the overhaul (and other maintenance) performed on condition.

Also I do not believe manufacturers envisaged their recomendations to become obligatory.

In many cases owners have now either grounded themselves or decided to continue illegally. Both scenarios are unacceptable.

New Types
Will these factory visits and difficult entrance into our local market for a new type continue? Is there a reason why we do not accept types that have already been accepted by other countries certifying authorities? Why can a 'paper' inspection not be carried out? Why are we requested to do destructive testing on a new type in SA where it has already been completed in the manufacturers own country?

There are builders still struggling to either get build numbers or proving flight authorities owing to the above. This makes little sense where in some cases there may be a large number of examples already flying both in the other countries and SA.

Other restrictions

Suddenly restrictions are appearing on Authorities to Fly that have never been there before. Restricted night flying is an example.

There are many more examples that I could provide in support of our perception that NTCA is being regulated out of existence.

I am aware that Aero Club is working on some solutions but for reasons (some beyond their control I believe), the progress be slow. In this time some urgency be required to prevent futher damage to the NTCA sector.

So again - What is the overall strategy or even statement of direction regarding NTCA operations in South Africa?

Regards
Roger Thomas
_________________
If a word in the dictionary were misspelled, how would we know?

[John Young]

Hi,

I see that Capt. Colin Jordaan is responding on the "Open Door Policy" (Avcom) in a very constructive manner.

Clearly, there are acknowledged concerns and he seems to have plans in place for most of them.

Regards
John ex-CIB

[skybound®]

Guys,

I cannot believe that those in favour of the litigation route are not going into this with their eyes WIDE open, but I have to ask the question - do you really understand what you may potentially be letting yorselves in for?

Just some recent personal experience - I and 9 other microlighters were recently issued with an eviction order as the air field lessor believed that he had the right to evict us from a municipal airfield - so just to defend the case we ended up spending R12 000.00 each, just to hire a legal representative to do all of the paper work and representation. Fortunately we did not even go to court, but we did not get our money back.

Secondly, had this gone to court, there was never any guarentee that we would win the case, and a plausible worst case scenario, we could lose the case, and the judge could dismiss the case with costs against us as defendants, i.e. we were then liable for our costs as well as the "complainant's"!!

I am a MISASA member, I have a 503, and I am concerned - however, I suspect that we will seriously jeopardize our case if we allowed MISASA to become weak and unable to continue to function due to lack of / poor support, and yes I have read all of the comments, most if not all expressing legitimate concerns, but hey, if communication is the biggest problem I am not so sure that justifies the calls to laugh off MISASA

Dobbs - could not have said it better myself.

We were involved in some flying related litigation. On our first visit to the legal man - he went over to his legal books - the ones with all the cases in them and said to us - 'Open the book on any page'. We complied. He then paged to the end of that case and said to us - 'This trial - there were 5 advocates and 4 lawyers. There was 1 plaintiff and 1 defendant. There was a winner and a loser, BUT all the advocates and lawyers got paid!' I really appreciated that. An honest opening of a legal relationship.

Also there is a misconception that if you win a case you get all your costs paid for by the loser. Forget it - it does not work that way! The clerk of the court 'taxes' the cost bill to be claimed from the loser and in most cases you will only see part of your costs being recovered. So even if you win, you end up short. After this exercise - I have decided that litigatioin is only for the brave. In fact I would probably try bungee junping before litigation

[Gadget]

Guy and girls some of you are missing the point.

Some of us have come a way with the frustration at misasa and caa and are trying a different route. There will be no winner and no loser when the solutions for all these issues are found. The idea is to find a solution, not a winner. For those who keep on criticizing us for doing this, get that in your head.

We cannot afford the thousands it is going to cost to go on an all out battle, but we will use what we have to find a suitable solution, not the extension like Mike is asking for but the abolishment we are asking for.

And now i have explained myself enough.

Either join the ranks of the littigators or the misasas but do something!

[Leprachaun]

Hi Guys , my two cents worth ,
Whats MISASA doing for its members -
What are you doing for MISASA - we asked for your help and 170 replies out of +- 2000 microlights answered on the engine hours . lots of response ???
Have you opened and checked a simple 503 at 400 hours -
I have and if I flew one I would do the general overhaul.
I flew a 582 , bought 2nd hand at 1200 hour for a further 250 hours and replaced it - no problem whatsoever - I have had 582 in for "service at300 hour with a totally buggered crank -
My vote a 300 hour inspection , a 600 hour crank replacement .
To litigate and badmouth CAA / MISASA and all others , maybe its the SA way - I dont think its the right way -I have also done it , but is it the Right way ??? I beleive not - negotiate ??
Mike and the committee of which I am one has been very busy for months working on a plan to overcome the issue !
Maybe the Litigators would like to take over , but me pay, not a chance -
I dont like the way that CAA is impementing the new rules , but if your "paperwork is done correctly and all is in order you have no problem .
I have done plenty APs lately , even more engine overhauls and have not had a single rejection yet -
To split the forces is the right way to end affordable flying in South Africa
Do what nyou think is right , but whatever you do fly safely
Leprachaun

[Dreamer]

Ja well.......Seems to me that Misasa is doing a hell of a lot to resolve the issue and doing it in a constructive and positive way that will help build a good long term relationship with CAA. Their fault seems to be in communicating this to the membership. Now the "stuff Misasa, what do they do for us assosiation" is poking the bear.........poked bears tend to bite..........When the database was being compiled where were all the responses, how many of the litigator association attend the Misasa AGM and voice their concerns there, or climb in and help ( I dont know, hence my asking but I bet for each person that does get involved there are 10 who just whine and complain from the outside). Dont complain on the outside, if you think you can do it better then sign up, stand for election and show us how its done. When the legal fee's are hitting a million, who all is going to chip in to meet that cost.............and the work is being done.

One , strong , well supported association is always going to do better than 50 splinter groups all working in different ways.

Throw your hard earned cash into the advocates pocket if you like, but I bet Misasa gets results while you get bills.

Fly safe all..

[CFD]

I will support MISASA and any others in efforts to revoke or seek relief from ALL the current legislation that is forcing owners to apply 'Type Certified' principles to aircraft repair and maintenance. Obviously issues which are expressly indicated as mandatory by the product manufacturer must be followed, as in the past.

There is a huge danger here of getting piece-meal exemptions on varios aspects of the new laws (300hr crankshaft rule fror eg.), as there are many dozens of other restrictive conditions in these maintenence schedules which will then be targeted by the authorities as having to be met! All these other issues are potentially just as costly and inconvenient, and in my opinion do not advance safety, as aircraft owners will continue, as they are now, to not log full flight hours. I personally know of many owners (including APs) who are deliberately logging only a fraction of the hours flown in an effort to defeat or minimise the impact of these new rules! This renders these new rules self-defeating and is detrimental to the safety of the entire NTCA fleet in the long run.

I therefore do not support efforts for a partial relaxation of only specified issues - once this is achieved the authorities will argue that they have entertained our concerns and that the case is now closed! This will be a disaster!

I will no longer renew my membership of MISASA - I feel that those at the helm have acted in self-interest, putting themselves above the concerns of the Microlight community who's interests they were entrusted to serve. IMO this amounts to dereliction of duty or even fraud as their efforts in the past have clearly been contrary to the wishes the members!

I say it again - we fly NTCA types. We are not permitted to enjoy the full benefits of full Certified Aircraft, yet are expected to adhere to the same stringent rules of repair and maintenance. This defeats the whole purpose of having a separate class of recreational aircraft in the fist place!

Wake up MISASA and CAA!

[LarryMcG]

CFD

So, you wont pay your misasa fees, but misasa must fight the battles for you, and you will supportt misasa??? HUhhh???

Extracts

I will support MISASA and any others in efforts to revoke or seek relief from ALL the current legislation
Iwill no longer renew my membership of MISASA

[Gadget]

I'm with CFD. Since I stopped paying my MISASA fees things have started to happen. Weird, I don't understand the economics

[CFD]

Yes Larry, you read correct - Obviously I will support MISASA in their efort to fix the c....p they had a hand in creating so that our sport can survive! No more and no less! They will certainly never see a cent from me though!

[lamercyfly]

Read my new post under the section on Aero Club, CAA and legal issues