Escourt Ultra City Discussion

[Bundy]

John can you stipulate the law or notam which was contravened and what specifically is the charge?
This is relevant to landing on any private strip/ outlanding without the owner's explicit approval/ refusal.

Hi TW,

We do not have the pilots permission to post that. I can tell you that I dont believe he was found to have contravened any reg's relating to public safety or landing at the Ultracity. He was found guilty of a paperwork issue though.

Guys, you NEED to have your legalities up to date! There is no excuse for that, you know the rules. Make sure you are current!!
Misasa is not here to try and "get you off the hook", we will not fight a legitimate Enforcement case where there is clear evidence of wrong doing. We are bound to the same Laws as everyone else.

We are at this stage getting in contact with the owner of the Ultracity to acertain where the road (N3) boundary is so that we can once and for all get clarification on whether or not pilots may use this strip or not.
If the answer is negative then this MUST be Notam'd so that others are aware of the possible consequences. We sincerely hope for a positive outcome, it would be sad to remove this traditional and very convenient site from the options list.

[John Boucher]

Let's face it... one does not need a moer of a long runway there any away - have to keep the bliks away

Here's food for thought

http://youtu.be/qmUzdKpeOSw

[mulderpm]

Looks like a Carbon Cub in Alaska. No body to complain there...hope he had permission...from the wildlife

http://www.cubcrafters.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPYzTWawkzw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAx8BT6vcBw

Sounds to me like we are screwed. If someone complains we are at fault and the CAA fines you minimum 10KR.

It is also not all doom and gloom. I know some pilots at Springs that were called in by the CAA and they did not pay a fine. Mr. Pierewit, you are the owner of ZU-XXX? Will you please come and have a cup of tea with me on Monday at 10 o'clock...sharp.

[Tumbleweed]

Turns out that this is an issue thats more than just about an individual landing at Ultra City so lets wait and see how it pans out before making damaging comments.

If we press the Ultra City too much and they're confronted by authorities they might just 'Oh stuff it, lets just close it. Not worth the hassle."

John will clarify in his own good diplomacy whether we can land there.

[Bundy]

Thank you to everyone for posting their thoughts on this matter. There are basically two topics here...

Topic 1:

The "legality" of landing at the ESUC is by no means resolved and I will report back after I have heard more from the owner. I cannot see anything wrong with it, but the CAA clearly sees this as "landing on a public road" and that is what we need to clarify with the land owner....IE, Who owns the lawn?

Topic 2:

Enforcement. This is always a contentious issue and we as pilots will always feel aggrieved being disciplined by authority. There does however exist a need for it because there are many pilots out there who have no regard for the regulations and regularly overstep the mark. That said, it is clear from this case as well as others that the system can be abused and we are not convinced that the way pilots are issued with fines/suspentions is at all times fair to those who have to face these sanctions...
As per this discussion, Misasa's Committee will take this issue forward through the official channels until we are staisfied that we do indeed have an active involvement in the Enforcement side of things where our members are concerned. We have to make the CAA realise that working with the ARO will far better improve safety and compliance than the way things currently stand.

I will keep you all updated as this progresses.

Many Thanks,

[John Boucher]

You really have a way with words... the perfect P.R.O.

We are seriously hoping to forge a healthy relationship with CAA and relevant departments as we already have with RAASA. We would also like to strengthen ties with the independant accident investigation section now falling directly under the dept. Transport.

I think it can be rather confusing to some as to when we have to answer to RAASA or when to CAA or both etc
It would have been quite simplistic if every NTCA 700 kgs and lighter was managed in its entirety by RAASA and the rest by CAA.

[John Boucher]

Okay chaps... here is the news you have been waiting for

The strip used for landing at the Shell Ultra City N3 Escourt is on PRIVATE PROPERTY..... and YOU MAY LAND THERE!

The owners appreciate the recreational pilots continued patronage...

The following needs to be adhered to. It is unlicenced & unregistered strip. It is noted in the Electronic Airfield Directory as a Cat C field and suitable for microlights.

It is un-manned and therefore those procedures are to be adhered to.

You land at your OWN DISCRETION so Shell or it's management will not be held liable for anything.

The owner of the land reserves the right to withdraw the privilege you as microlight/LSA pilot has to land there and will surely prohibit this if CAR's are contravened
You may not taxi onto the tar or to the pumps - under no circumstances - you will then be guilty of an offense - I do believe the tar is regarded as public roads!

Normal refueling safety precautions need to be adhered to and if you can - NO RUNNING ENGINES, fire extinguisher close at hand, NO SMOKING etc.

It is Forecourt fuel and sold as such - use a Raco Funnel or better still, someone donate one to the owner of the ULTRA City to use when filling up there.

Now.... MISASA, our members, CAA Enforcement
The controversy that sparked this discussion is mainly resolved and the respected pilot involved was found guilty on an alternative infringement that came to light due to the investigation process. This is not the first time pilots have been taken to task for alternative infringements. There are numerous cases that I can mention. The bottom line is - if you are going to be investigated by Enforcement due to an accident or confidential hazard report, note that the process will be thorough and then your status needs to be legal - from pilots license, medical, through to validity of ATF etc. Accept this as a friendly reminder or take heed as a warning!!!

I have been able to have lengthy discussion with 2 persons in the Enforcement department. We have made tremendous progress in forging a better understanding and I have to admit, they were sincerely accommodating. We are now in the process of arranging a formal meeting in which Donald Hicks & I will represent MISASA and hope to achieve that what we thought was impossible. Please note that currently there is no arrangements in place with either RAASA or CAA to inform the relevant ARO's of when a member is subject to an enforcement action. We call on you to make us a part of that, but that in the end is your choice. It is not to get you off on a lighter sentence but it is to provide possibly a different insight to our fraternity which could change the outcome of the enforcement action.

The REGS are the REGS I'm afraid...

Now go have a safe flying weekend!

[Bundy]

Okay chaps... here is the news you have been waiting for
The strip used for landing at the Shell Ultra City N3 Escourt is on PRIVATE PROPERTY..... and YOU MAY LAND THERE!
The owners appreciate the recreational pilots continued patronage...

I'm so happie...we do da dance of joy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_5J1csi1AU

I have been able to have lengthy discussion with 2 persons in the Enforcement department. We have made tremendous progress in forging a better understanding and I have to admit, they were sincerely accommodating. We are now in the process of arranging a formal meeting in which Donald Hicks & I will represent MISASA and hope to achieve that what we thought was impossible.

Great news...

[Folla]

Okay chaps... here is the news you have been waiting for
The strip used for landing at the Shell Ultra City N3 Escourt is on PRIVATE PROPERTY..... and YOU MAY LAND THERE!
The owners appreciate the recreational pilots continued patronage...

I'm so happie...we do da dance of joy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_5J1csi1AU

I have been able to have lengthy discussion with 2 persons in the Enforcement department. We have made tremendous progress in forging a better understanding and I have to admit, they were sincerely accommodating. We are now in the process of arranging a formal meeting in which Donald Hicks & I will represent MISASA and hope to achieve that what we thought was impossible.

Great news...

[Bulletjie]

Okay chaps... here is the news you have been waiting for

The strip used for landing at the Shell Ultra City N3 Escourt is on PRIVATE PROPERTY..... and YOU MAY LAND THERE!

The owners appreciate the recreational pilots continued patronage...

The following needs to be adhered to. It is unlicenced & unregistered strip. It is noted in the Electronic Airfield Directory as a Cat C field and suitable for microlights.

It is un-manned and therefore those procedures are to be adhered to.

You land at your OWN DISCRETION so Shell or it's management will not be held liable for anything.

The owner of the land reserves the right to withdraw the privilege you as microlight/LSA pilot has to land there and will surely prohibit this if CAR's are contravened
You may not taxi onto the tar or to the pumps - under no circumstances - you will then be guilty of an offense - I do believe the tar is regarded as public roads!

Normal refueling safety precautions need to be adhered to and if you can - NO RUNNING ENGINES, fire extinguisher close at hand, NO SMOKING etc.

It is Forecourt fuel and sold as such - use a Raco Funnel or better still, someone donate one to the owner of the ULTRA City to use when filling up there.

Now.... MISASA, our members, CAA Enforcement
The controversy that sparked this discussion is mainly resolved and the respected pilot involved was found guilty on an alternative infringement that came to light due to the investigation process. This is not the first time pilots have been taken to task for alternative infringements. There are numerous cases that I can mention. The bottom line is - if you are going to be investigated by Enforcement due to an accident or confidential hazard report, note that the process will be thorough and then your status needs to be legal - from pilots license, medical, through to validity of ATF etc. Accept this as a friendly reminder or take heed as a warning!!!

I have been able to have lengthy discussion with 2 persons in the Enforcement department. We have made tremendous progress in forging a better understanding and I have to admit, they were sincerely accommodating. We are now in the process of arranging a formal meeting in which Donald Hicks & I will represent MISASA and hope to achieve that what we thought was impossible. Please note that currently there is no arrangements in place with either RAASA or CAA to inform the relevant ARO's of when a member is subject to an enforcement action. We call on you to make us a part of that, but that in the end is your choice. It is not to get you off on a lighter sentence but it is to provide possibly a different insight to our fraternity which could change the outcome of the enforcement action.

The REGS are the REGS I'm afraid...

Now go have a safe flying weekend!

For those always complaining about paying membership fees, here is your answer!!

Thank you John and MISASA!!

[mulderpm]

Great news..and thanks to our ARO.

Good airmanship, common sense and adherence to Air Law...makes for safe flying.

Safe flying!

[vernon11]

For those always complaining about paying membership fees, here is your answer!!

Toooo true.

[John Boucher]

Lekker bang gat

[bobthebuilder]

Well done!
Many thanks gents.

[John Boucher]

Sadly some people are filled with malice and sheer jealousy!