Maximum take-off weight- Problem for CCM?

[rod smith]

Do I have this right?

Is the legal maximum take-off weight for a Conventionally Controlled Microlight as low as I think it to be at 450kg?

If so, look at the problem a Cheetah pilot, for example, faces:

Empty weight 250kg
Full fuel 95kg
Two crew 165kg

Problem: Total weight now =510kg

I must have something wrong here, or we shouldn't be flying anywhere other than places we can get to on less than half fuel.

Of course we could all go on diet.

Rod Smith

[Rudix]

Do I have this right?

Is the legal maximum take-off weight for a Conventionally Controlled Microlight as low as I think it to be at 450kg?

If so, look at the problem a Cheetah pilot, for example, faces:

Empty weight 250kg
Full fuel 95kg
Two crew 165kg

Problem: Total weight now =510kg

I must have something wrong here, or we shouldn't be flying anywhere other than places we can get to on less than half fuel.

Of course we could all go on diet.

Rod Smith

This is one of the reasons we needed the new LSA class, under LSA you can go up to 600kg.

You can fly your Cheetha @ 510kg with a PPL or a NPL as a LSA.

Fly safe,
Rudi

[rod smith]

Thanks, Rudi

You have helped me arrive at clarity. There are three of us in the Cheetah and as I see it the following applies:

I shall do the type conversion as a PPL. One partner, until recently an MPL, has done his conversion to three-axis a/c on the Savanah and will have his licence migrated to an NPL. This will be automatic at his next renewal. In the meantime he is legal to do his conversion to type and to fly with NPL privileges. The third has a lapsed PPL. He has to re-instate, but will start training at NPL level on the Cheetah.

Rod Smith

[Rudix]

Thanks, Rudi

You have helped me arrive at clarity. There are three of us in the Cheetah and as I see it the following applies:

I shall do the type conversion as a PPL. One partner, until recently an MPL, has done his conversion to three-axis a/c on the Savanah and will have his licence migrated to an NPL. This will be automatic at his next renewal. In the meantime he is legal to do his conversion to type and to fly with NPL privileges. The third has a lapsed PPL. He has to re-instate, but will start training at NPL level on the Cheetah.

Rod Smith

Hi Rod,

Yes, that sounds right !

Have fun with your new baby !
Rudi

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Rod
I think you can fly it on your PPL. No convex or RPL/NPL necessary. (Costs 2x for 2 licenses)

[Tumbleweed]

I presume the 'NPL' is the new Sports CAtagory licence i.e. below 600kg?

[Rudix]

I presume the 'NPL' is the new Sports CAtagory licence i.e. below 600kg?

Yes, if you have a NPL with a LSA rating it is up to 600kg, with a CCM rating it is up to 450kg.

[KFA]

The NPL stands for national pilots license. But I think the term Recreational Pilots license is the correct one. Under that you get a category rating for LSA, WCM,CCM,Gyro etc. and under that you get your type ratings for each catgory. If you migrate from one category to the next like from WCM to LSA you have to do a min of a 10hr conversion. SO we all get a RPL or NPL as its called with a different catogory and type ratings.

[Stephan van Tonder]

Rod for you - simply do a type conversion and fly it under your PPL. You even log hours 1:1. Max weigth for the cheetah then is 560KG.
For you mate that has savannah on his license - do the normal conversion to cheetah - do a flight test - take conversion, flight test plus a License renewal form
and R220 to RAASA and they will give him an NPL license - with an LSA rating on it with his airplanes on his license and he can also legally fly the cheetah at 560KG. Easy peasy.

[Renier]

Very interesting.....so Cheetah, Bushbaby, Savannah, etc are TYPES of a/c (Z codes?) for which you have to get a Type rating/conversion? And they fall in--(sorry!)...are classified either as CCM (if under 450 Kg), or as LSA (450 to 600 Kg) CATEGORY a/c?
...and your Pilot's License needs to be MPL category (for CCM/WCM) and NPL/RPL category (for LSA)?

So, to summarise: The Pilot License needs to reflect category of license (MPL, NPL,PPL, etc) as well as Type of aircraft (Z code, ie Cheetah (CCM or LSA), Bushbaby (CCM or LSA), etc.

Have I got this lot right, or is everybody totally confused now.....

[John Boucher]

But remember the Cheetah's MTOW is still 560kg's which you may not exceed!!

[Stephan van Tonder]

Renier- - the new license that is administered by RAASA is called recreational pilot's license - RPL. It is also known as NPL - National pilot's license as it is only valid in South africa as it is not part of PART 61 which is ICAO recognised. This license was previously known as MPL.
Right now that we have that out of the way - there is a Category rating inside that license and that will depend on the aircraft that you fly - Those are 3 categories Namely :
WSM - Weigh shift microlight - which has the same definition as before - Less than 260 kg empty - less than 450 kg all up - controlled by weight shift.
CCM - conventional controlled microlight - so 3 axis fixed wing - same weights - less than 260 empty - not over 450 all up weight.
LSA - 3 seater aircraft - 3 axis fixed wing - single non-turbine engine - Stall speed clean under 45 knots - not faster than 150 knots and maximum weight not more than 600. So this is for all the aircraft that has a certified max all up weight higher than the 450 kg limit like for instance the cheetah at 560kg.
Then the aircraft that you are rated on is also on the license by their normal Z codes.
The z type codes are apparently going to be dropped in future.
NOW - if you have a PPL you can fly aircraft that are rated as LSA by simply doing the normal differences training or conversion and then placing that aircraft on your license.Hours you fly on those get logged in your logbook as normal. You may also fly CCM aircaft on the same license but in future you can't log those hours 1:1 there will be some 'rate' like 0.5 of time.
You may not fly your weighshift trike on your Part 61 PPL anymore - you now have to get that as a separate license from RAASA.
Now I'm tired.

[Gyronaut]

Now I'm tired.

That makes 2 of us.

kidding Stephan... keep it up

Len

[Tumbleweed]

Toe maar Stephen, everytime you post you enlighten a few more of us.

[Arnulf]

Renier- - the new license that is administered by RAASA is called recreational pilot's license - RPL. It is also known as NPL - National pilot's license as it is only valid in South africa as it is not part of PART 61 which is ICAO recognised. This license was previously known as MPL.
Right now that we have that out of the way - there is a Category rating inside that license and that will depend on the aircraft that you fly - Those are 3 categories Namely :
WSM - Weigh shift microlight - which has the same definition as before - Less than 260 kg empty - less than 450 kg all up - controlled by weight shift.
CCM - conventional controlled microlight - so 3 axis fixed wing - same weights - less than 260 empty - not over 450 all up weight.
LSA - 3 seater aircraft - 3 axis fixed wing - single non-turbine engine - Stall speed clean under 45 knots - not faster than 150 knots and maximum weight not more than 600. So this is for all the aircraft that has a certified max all up weight higher than the 450 kg limit like for instance the cheetah at 560kg.
Then the aircraft that you are rated on is also on the license by their normal Z codes.
The z type codes are apparently going to be dropped in future.
NOW - if you have a PPL you can fly aircraft that are rated as LSA by simply doing the normal differences training or conversion and then placing that aircraft on your license.Hours you fly on those get logged in your logbook as normal. You may also fly CCM aircaft on the same license but in future you can't log those hours 1:1 there will be some 'rate' like 0.5 of time.
You may not fly your weighshift trike on your Part 61 PPL anymore - you now have to get that as a separate license from RAASA.
Now I'm tired.

Now that is a bit k@k. What if we want to fly outside of SA? Has that been addressed?