Microlighters

Hi All,

Came across the new Phenix website - http://www.phenix.aero/

Looks like a beautiful machine!

I see there's an agent near you in St Helena Bay

The guy's name is Anton Tallies. The first one will hopefully reach us by the end of the year. We'll wait and see what happens.

What do you guys think of the tractor config pros & cons

I have only flown once in an Ela as far as gyros are concerned and enjoyed it immensely.

thanks
greg

TouchNgo wrote:What do you guys think of the tractor config pros & cons

greg

I would also like to know!

I remember reading a while ago that tractor gyros are much safer than pusher types,is that true? Are tractor props not more efficient than pusher props and are the rudders then not more effective on pusher types? Gyros are a new world to me and I find them fascinating!

I also see that on the Xenon the horizontal fin is just about in line with the prop unlike the Magni M24 and Rotortec where they are lower, is that not better (to be in line with the prop)??

Whirly.

Where is FO Gyro....

I heard one guy say "It is much harder to push a rope that to pull a rope". Maby the same pricipal applies?

THI wrote:Where is FO Gyro....

Been fighting the wx in the Cape lately. One of our B737-800's flew from JNB-CPT last night, did 2 go-arounds in Cape Town because of the excessive crosswind, and then diverted back to Joburg (our crosswind limit on wet runway is 20 kts, a damp runway is 25 kts, ad 30 kts on a dry runway). They flew 4 hours and ended up where they started! Time to spare, go by air...Passengers couldn't have been too impressed.

I'm not that boff when it comes to tractor vs. pusher configurations for gyro's and which is best. All I know is that the earlier versions of Cierva were pusher types. At least a tractor config would receive less prop damage from stones.

So Anton has finally got this off the ground! Remember him talking about it at Saldanha back in 2005 before I left SA. Nice looking aircraft. Hope it does well! Its actually amazing how many South Africans are involved in the Recreational Aviation industry all over the world. Long may it continue!

All I know is that the earlier versions of Cierva were pusher types.

Sure you didn't mean "tractor types? I'm not aware of any Cierva pushers.

Tractor vs Puller Pros & Cons

Tractor Pro's:
Centre line thrust (CLT) and horizontal stab longer arm moment = minimised risk of PPO (power push over)
Greater prop clearance allows bigger (quieter) prop and bigger powerplant.
Cleaner airflow to prop

Tractor Con's
Most were (are) taildragger configurations. (crosswind landings trickier?)
Pilot field of view more limuted over nose / and past mast
Most (if not all) are open cockpit
Weight & balance: Longer / heavier fuselage / tail required to 'balance" front mounted engine.

Pusher Pro's
Unimpeded field of view for pilot.
Weight & balance. Rear mounted engine offsets pilot & pax weight.
Tailplane in propwash - greater rudder authority?
More manouverable.
Tricycle undercarriage
Lighter / smaller airframe?

Pusher Con's
Thrustline offets (risk of higher thrustline and PPO)
Limited prop clearance and size options
Risk of loose items from cockpit / pilot / pax blown backwards thru prop.
Disrupted airflow past fuselage & engine to prop

others...?

Sorry, meant "tractor".

Did a little research here on tractor versus pusher.
In a tractor version, the air produced from the prop has to move along the fuselage, and because it is "accelerated" drag is increased. In the pusher version, there are very little "obstructions" in the way to cause additional drag due to "accelerated" air from the prop, hence a "cleaner" flow.
Also spoke to a Cessna Push/Pull pilot on this issue. Rear engine only would maintain altitude under load whilst front engine could not. Front engine again easier to cool than rear engine.
Seems like it does have it good and sad points.
Eric

It is apparently true that in the first 20 years of Gyro flying, not one fatal accident was ever recorded , and this was all in TRACTOR type Gyro's. Thats got to say alot about the pros of a tractor design

Phenix gyro = Rotor by Wagtail !

Update video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A3paveX40I&sns=em

Reply van Anton Tallies regarding the Phenix

Thinus,die gyro vlieg baie gemaklik. Ek was drie weke terug in Spanje en het self twee keer gevlieg en dit geniet.Ek is nou besig om al die papierwerk reg te kry en Herman Kleynhans gaan die Authority for first flight doen by CAA.Ek het oor twee weke 'n vergadering met Herman en sal besluit wanneer om die gyro in te bring.Die gyro staan reg om te kom.Ons kan bestellings neem want intussen sal die CAA uitgesorteer wees,groete,Anton T

and

Thinus, Ek sal jou op hoogte hou van alles. Ek wil baie graag nou terwyl ons die papier werk afhandel nog 'n engine toets. In Frankryk is daar 'n Vija Suzuki engine van 120HP wat ons gaan toets vir 'n maand.Dit sal die prys afbring en meer HP gee. Die engine pas net so op die rotax engine mount en op die oomblik is die engine in drie toets vliegtuie. Hulle is ook besig met 'n turbo charge een van 160 HP. Die gewig is ook dieselfde as rotax. Jy kan maar in mikrolighters sit.Groete,Anton T

Redneck speaking is available on request