Radio Calls, as a beginner

[Wallaby]

my limited experiance

My goodness Ross, even me that's a prim and proper Dutchman, doesn't make spelling mistakes like that. Hope your father doesn't pay your tutor too much..... He's defenitely not getting his moneys'(sic?) worth .

And Louis will tell you, it's "final 23" and not "finals 23". It looks like you're getting along good now, with all the training then? Enjoy, but damn, it's a long stretch until you're old enough for your licence. But by then you'll be the most experienced student pilot. And that is good, because you'll never be too experienced even after 20hours of dual training before going solo.

[Boet]

Julle moet nou geepad, ek wil kom sit!!

[Trikenut]

Wallaby: Thanks, I can spell actually! But it was my day off, it was a weekend!
Just thinking about it, I actually do say final 23, but at my desk, finals sounds right. But thinking about it now, final sounds even better!
Boet: With my very limited Afrikaans I have translated what you say to mean, you will come sit on my keyboard! Please don't, I need this for another year! Then I get a new one. If you PM me your Postal Address, when I get my new one, I'll send this laptop up to you!
If I am wrong with my translation, correct me, but don't me!
Cheers
Ross

[Gyronaut]

Gerrit Nel (SAAF Colonel Langebaanweg if I am not mistaken) does an awesome radio course here in the Cape and I recommend it to everyone. Its the best investment you can make because you will be considered professional afterwards. Pilots are rated on their radio work as much as their landings. (Remember you are only as good as your last landing).

Please keep in mind that while you are talking on the radio, the instructor talking to his student in the circuit cannot talk to him. He is waiting for you to say where you are and what your intentions are, thats all he is interested in.

I have said this before but its worth saying again... a highly respected pilot in this neck of the woods (outside the circuit) simply says... "XXX traffic" if he gets no response he shuts up, if someone says, "last caller in the XXX area, say again?", he elaborates otherwise there is no reason to clutter the airwaves. I'm all for that.

Again in my humble opinion, If you're in a circuit, there is no reason to call crosswind, downwind, base and final. Downwind and Final is usually adequate unless someone calls downwind right after you and neglects to say which number in the circuit he is. Then beware, because he may not know that you are ahead of him. Then its best if you call Base. Which brings me to the point that I believe it is compulsory (and good airmanship) to say "XXX left hand downwind number X" if you know there are aircraft ahead of you. Not saying your number in the circuit assumes you are first.

PS, Wargames is quite right, its FINAL, not FINALS

Fly safe

Len

[Gyronaut]

Julle moet nou geepad, ek wil kom sit!!

"RAND RAND i WANNA LAND!"

[Wargames]

I have said this before but its worth saying again... a highly respected pilot in this neck of the woods (outside the circuit) simply says... "XXX traffic" if he gets no response he shuts up, if someone says, "last caller in the XXX area, say again?", he elaborates otherwise there is no reason to clutter the airwaves. I'm all for that.

Hi Len,

What about the guys that do the popular "Trafic in the 1248 this is ABC!"

Can they do a "1248 trafic" and then shut up?? Of course not, so that is also not a proper way to do it.

The big problem with radio calls, is that everybody do like everybody does. If piet does it one way, you are sure to find a couple of guys to do the same in a few weeks (If it sounds cool.) Do as len says, and go and do a proper radio course every year, or make friends with an atc, and discuss what he would like to hear. That is the right way, and btw, it is not "Final 23" but "Final approach runway 23". Remember, no short cuts, but please keep it short.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

IMHO

Finals 23 is more than adequate. Simply calling XYZ traffic can lead to problems when there are 2 oukes who do it... Both are waiting for the other to come back and then neither does.....

Me I make the full calls, but often I will call turning base and finals in 1 call since by the time I have made base turn call I am turning finals.... (At uncontrolled where these is not other traffic I tend to fly low er tighter circuits?

It communication. As long as you are clear in expressing your intentions....

[Grumpy]

A bigger problem than the correct calling is the terrible quality of some of the radio transmissions one has to endure. Has me scrambling for the volume control.

[Trikenut]

We don't always call crosswind, it is dependent on the number of aircraft in the circuit.
I agree that we should all make sure we are up-to-date with out radio work. I also agree with RV4ker's point of view, as long as your intentions are clear and you keep it short, it should be fine.
Wow, this is controversial!
Cheers
Ross

[Gyronaut]

Can they do a "1248 trafic" and then shut up?? Of course not, so that is also not a proper way to do it.

Of course not... but it would work on "Traffic in the Voelvleidam area". If you're not close to the dam you ignore it so it works for me. Remember this is outside any circuit or ATZ.

On that point Dirk, What is the point of saying Traffic on 124.8? So that people scanning more than one frequency can identify which one you called on? I dont agree with this usage since a quick glance at the device will tell you which frequency is being broadcast on. Everyone else that is on that frequency knows they're on it so duh? I kinda think people that say that like the sound of their own voices personally. so moer me.

I reckon "Traffic in the XYZ area" where XYZ is an identifiable landmark on an aviation map is the correct way followed by who you are, where you are (position and altitude and maybe QNH) and what your intentions are is good airmanship.

In any event, I agree with everything said on the topic so far.

Rgds & fly safe

Len

[andrepieterse]

Any conflicting traffic?... My pet hate.

Goes with what Len said. If there is conflicting traffic they''ll talk.

Anyway, when in doubt, go back to your radio licence textbook or ask for advice (as is being done in this thread).

To beginners I would suggest rehearsing as many of the anticipated radio calls as possible before the flight.

[Tracer]

Any conflicting traffic?... My pet hate.

Agreed 100%, one of my pet hates as well. Another derivative, "................ Any conflicting traffic please confirm, XYZ". Like you said, if there is conflicting traffic in your area, they will pipe up soon enough.

Keep it short, to the point and accurate. If you are unsure, rehearse the call before pressing the PTT. If you make a mistake, which we have all done, simply say "Correction" and supply correct info.

One thing that I find difficult sometimes though is announcing my destination, because many times I just fly, no particular destination in mind.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

One thing I have started doing is to include the location in the "closure".
This from today
VFR traffic in the Ottosdal area (I was taught to use VFR traffic as opposed to 124.80 traffic, since that implies that if you VFR you are 1500ft AGL or below although I hear guys broadcasting day in day out on 124.80 at FL075/085 and higher..) RVF is Vans RV 4 from Parys to Vryburg, 8miles south Ottosdal at 6000' 1033 routing direct Vryburg. RVF Ottosdal.

Only reason I do this is because with all the double and tripple transmission sometimes it difficult to hear where the hell you are.... If you open and close with the location the "conflicting traffic" can make up mind if they are conflicting or not.

PS
In circuit
PLEASE include the airport. If you are flying at Parys on 123.50 and are left base and the other plonker is at FAKD also left base it causes confusion as it did today, when the Guy landed on the opposite runway to waht he was broadcasting and then argue'd with me overhead watching him touch down on the wrong numbers....

Similarly on 124.80 there are plenty plenty airports which use that freq. It is pain in ass if you hear left base 36. WTF are you left base for 36....

just my 2c...

[Morph]

seeing as we are on the pet hate thing.

key the mike, take a breath, then say "Morning Star traffic". What usually happens is you hear ".ar traffic" People seem to be so anxious to say something that the the brain and mouth kicks in before the PTT switch does.

It's "Who you want to talk to", "who you are", "where you are" and "what you want to do/where do you want to go".

who do you want to talk to
- if on the ground at an airfield then the traffice related to that airfield i.e. "Saldanha traffic" - Specific to Saldanha airfield
- if in the air then it's the traffic in your area - "traffic in the Vredendal area" - no body else

who you are
- this you should know

Where you are
- overhead/abeam/5miles north of Leoriesfontein at 1500ft/flight level 080

What you want to do/where do you want to go
- Joining overhead to land
- routing to Vredendal
- leaving Saldanha circuit, routing for Langebaanweg

etc

[mak]

Is it good practice to end your radio call with your call sign, or does this make the call too long?
Most guys, especially in busy traffic, miss the call sign in the beginning and only with the position report they realize it is conflicting traffic and then say "previous caller". Sometimes you don't get a chance immediately and three calls later difficult to say "caller three calls earlier, please confirm QNH, etc etc ". I have noticed that more experienced pilots pick the call sign in the beginning more often and thus not a problem.