Inflight Refuelling

[Sukkelaar]

I visited Pau Lintott's Factory in Ballito this December and was very surprised at the wide variety of fields he specialises in.

He manufactures water suits with a battery powered pump system which curculates water thruogh this suit from a 2 litre bottle. This system is to keep the wearer of it cool with water being circulated around his body in this suit. (I hope this is understandable) These suits and equipment are used by bomb disposal experts.

Paul placed the pump of these containers in the screw top cap. With the wires exiting the top of the cap and then going through a on/offswitch to the battery.

Speaking to Paul he said that it would be possible to have 50 litre containers made with the screw top on the bottom side of the container.

It should then be very easy to install this system to carry extra fuel (50 litres) as well as do inflight refueling and have the pump work from your pod or dash board.
The pump does 20 litres a minute

Any comments? ( I will see if I can get him to post pictures of the equipment)

regards
Sukkelaar

[Tailspin]

I would love to put something like that in a Belly/ Drop tank for those flights that are really going to be far like up to southwest or something like that.
Sounds like a fab Idea.

[ZULU1]

Martin, after our discussions, have given this some thought, now we can make the tank any thickness, we have the caps tooling and fittings etc. When we originally discussed the EOD/IEDD cooling suit bottle that you saw, we investigated the potential of using a co2 charged aerosol can. It works well is self priming and is very efficient. Plus the ice does not upset the submersible pump. Problem is sourcing cans after we supply the kit. So this fell away (also the risk of secondary shrapnel). Anyway, it would not be difficult to obtain a charged can (similar to air horns) and instead of expensive pumps, cables and other complicated delivery devices. Why not pressurise the auxiliary tank and use that as a very economical simple light system for fuel delivery. Basically mount a air fitting to the tank and then a option exists to fit the aerosol delivery valve and canister. Obviously as a propellant use something such as Nitrogen, CO2 or similar ? This makes a universal product and would be very cheap to produce. Probably one canister per tank. The delivery rate will be much higher than a pump as well. Mount the canister next to the pilots seat for ease of use.

Any ideas welcome.

Zulu1

[Air Hog]

I have already made a in flight refueling system which I have used on several long trips.

I bought a Electric fuel pump and some Fuel line hose. Took the normal Red Fuel can and rigged this all together and there I had an "Auxiliary Fuel in flight Replenishing System" The can gets strapped onto the passenger seat and when I know that I have used at least 25l fuel according to the Optifuel system, I switch the system on and have another 25l endurance. It takes approximately 4-5 minutes to refuel. The power I get from a 12v connector also fitted specifically for this. I never had the need for more than than 25l because by then either mother nature calls or "my gat is seer" and need to land. If not needed the system gets removed and stored in my locker at the hanger.

Works like a charm.

[Sukkelaar]

I find I travel with 50 litres ( two red cans ) on a lot of trips, not that I mind stopping to refuel but its a schlep tying both on the back seat one on top of thee other with
tog bag (clothes) on top of that. I then have to untie everything to refuel and then tie-up again, and these cans especially two together are difficult to secure on the back seat as they dont fit properly and dont have enough anchor points, all of which can be corrected by Zulu if planned correctly. I must say that I find carrying 50 litres very conveniant on long trips as I then don't have to arrange fuel as often as I would have carrying 25 liters. Remember once your trikes tank is empty you can only add 25 litres so the next leg is very short, and you then have to arrange for fuel cans to fill the trike on top of filling your can. Also I can fly out 45 Litres of fuel to a destination (trikes capacity = 50) then add the 50 litres I carry to return. Zulu's system will also be removable just unplug a power cable and tank will be made to tie securely with passenger safety belt

regards

Sukkelaar

ps I spoke to Zulu and he will post pics of his system

[John Young]

Hi Guys,

I have an opposing view.

Your bum and bladder can't outlast a full fuel tank.

Fuel should be managed on the ground - not with in-flight electrical fuel pumps or pressurised jerry cans.

Why add risk to a routine requirement?

Regards
John ZU-sEXY

[Tribal Croc]

Saw this it’s a 20l extra tank with an electric fuel pump, switch is on the pod activate and it pumps the fuel direct into your main tank.

Aquilla also have a 95l tank http://www.lightflight.co.za/buy_or_sel ... lights.php

Both of these are fixed units and will add a little bit to your all up weight so when flying around the patch only fill your normal 50l.

The only thing is when landing at remote places you will still need a fuel container to transport fuel from the petrol station to the plane

[Sukkelaar]

John I agree that bum and bladder can,t outlast a fuel tank, this is not the problem the problem is having enough fuel to reach a destination without having to arrange feul along the route. Also 912's have long range compared to 503 and 582's. So its not so much the stopping that bothers me, but the schlepp of organising petrol.

My safe range on trike is 2hours so if I dont carry fuel I can travel 1hour out from home base before returning, so extra fuel just about a must.
Unless I should have a 912 GT (R) that travels double the distance on a litre and in a third of the time.

By the way, what is the tank size on the GT. I know the Cobra has 78litre capacity this should give a range of 6 hours on a 912

regards

Sukkelaar

[Thatchman]

Unless I should have a 912 GT (R) that travels double the distance on a litre and in a third of the time.

By the way, what is the tank size on the GT.

Gt tank is 65 litres. A GT only uses less fuel if you trim it back to about 65 mph and then you will burn about 10 litres an hour. at 80 mph it will burn the same as a two stroke at about 16 to 18 lph depending on weight.

Whilst I agree that you need to land for leg stretch anyway, there are times that in flight fueling may be needed. I have had one occasion where it would have been nice.

[Triker]

"..By the way, what is the tank size on the GT. I know the Cobra has 78litre capacity this should give a range of 6 hours on a 912"


Uhmm, thats more than the average motor car! With my fuel consumption on the Cobra 582 (10-12 l /hr one-up) I could fly 6 and half hours. Ouch..
thats equivilant to holding your peepee from Jhb to Durban.

Hopefully there will be some flying time this weekend. Enjoy Guys!!

[Air Hog]

Sometimes, you plan a trip and the one leg might be a little dodgy when you calculate your fuel and you realise you are cutting it fine. It is for that reason that I have build my system, just to be on the safe side. I will rather get to my destination with the fuel in my tank than fuel in a can on the seat.

[Sukkelaar]

Guys

I think even if I dont really need to refuel inflight, I definately like the idea of a custom made 50 litre container to fit my backseat and tie-up with
the safety belt.
When doing cross country's and following the 912'S I burn 18 to 20 litres per hour and on my 50 litre Scout tank that gives me 2hours and 140 miles with another 50 I can make that 4 hours and 280 miles.

regards

Sukkelaar

[John Young]

Gt tank is 65 litres. A GT only uses less fuel if you trim it back to about 65 mph and then you will burn about 10 litres an hour. at 80 mph it will burn the same as a two stroke at about 16 to 18 lph depending on weight.

Howdy Thatch,

You've got a thirsty beast.

My trike uses 6 lph at 60 mph and 12 lph at 85 mph.

Guys, the point I made was that I'd rather manage my fuel on the ground than use submersible electric pumps, pressurised jerry cans etc. in the air.

The retrofit 20 litre tank by Solo Wings with an in-line facet pump is safe but expensive.

Thatchman takes off with 125 litres (120 usable).

Regards
John ZU-sEXY

[ZULU1]

Chaps, if we are to consider making this "kokok" then I will need at least 25 confirmed orders for a roto- moulding tool. I have the caps and seals etc.

I would insert the pump, probably a Huco in the integrity of the unit and have a cover plate with connection devices that would allow it to perform as a huge fuel container. It will need to fit Gyros and GT450s which have smaller seats than Aquillas. Probably Cheetahs as well. So a wood mock up will be made first.

If we get around to production then I will call it without question a truly South African name "kokok". It would be 60 litres and usable 50 litres.

PM orders so we can see if its viable...

Zulu1

[Rudix]

I love the idea of having PLENTY fuel available, as said not so much for long legs but the ability to return after a 2-3 hour flight without having to find a source of fuel.

I regularly fly with 120+ l of fuel in the plane, some of the places I visit does not have fuel available. I often fly with a 25l tank, like the red ones used on inflatable boats, equipped with a (external) Facit pump wired to a switch on the dash, it takes around 8 minutes to transfer the tank to the main tank. It is a great feeling seeing your fuel gauge move towards full when you out over the mountains or water with a stiff headwind

I would be really interested in a 50l tank, with or without a pump (can fit my own if needed) that could be fitted to a passenger seat or even behind the seats in the luggage area.

Fly safe,
Rudi