where to from here ??????

[John Boucher]

The Valkyrie trike they intend selling with the 130hp engine... geeeeees!

[ZULU1]

What is a Vakyrie trike? We need a new forum section for alternative power plants please?

Not match to ask...

[Airbender bravo]

I agree one cant keep up with this its really getting bad now thats why i sold my trike i bought it 2 years ago for 90 grand and coz i was new to the flying sport the guy took me for an ass and sold me an unflyable and unsave machine cost me another 70000 just to get it in the sky savely sold it 1 year after for 60 grand less than ive spended on it coz the market as you all know is really bad nowadays so for now i just stick to hire and fly for me its at the moment the best and cost effective way my trike cost me 160 grand just to get all right and ready and i only flew with it like 30hours for the whole year i had it plus in that year i had to buy alot of small end and pieces costing me and arm and a leg for only small silly things if ived hire and fly from the beginning i wouldhaved saved a lot of money and could still fly for 3years with the rest of the budget its just funny im in the truck,plant and machinery busness with is also hard to do these days but for ex, if i have to go and buy a brand new complete engine for my truck it cost me 120 grand almost as much as a 582 blue top now but th3 difference is my motor can do 800 000 km on that motor before it needs to be checked out for wear and tear plus its a mutch more expensive thing as its 20 times bigger and has 3000 times more components than a small 582 yet its the same price iys only becuase a 582 is used for luxury and a truck for work plus the guys who is the sole agend for rotax in sa makes a profit of 400% and i know that for a fact coz ive had a can am leisure dealership a few year back and also had to close down due to people who cant afford these high prices anymore the can am quads also has rotax motors fitted with duel ignition per cylinder etc etc and i know what our cost prices was compared to the retail price and i could not drop my prices for parts as the company would then took my dealership license away because then the other dealerships would go and complain to the agency coz in your contract yoh have a suggested retail price and every dealer must comply with it or else .... but ya their making a killing out of us and eventually they,ll kill the sport ive seen a cobra fitted with a yaris engine fully completed abd man it goes nice but its also standing coz the owner doeznt want to fly anymore due to money issues !

[THI]

Syndicates might be the future. Which is not a bad thing necessarily.

[Duck Rogers]

I agree one cant keep up with this its really getting bad now thats why i sold my trike i bought it 2 years ago for 90 grand and coz i was new to the flying sport the guy took me for an ass and sold me an unflyable and unsave machine cost me another 70000 just to get it in the sky savely sold it 1 year after for 60 grand less than ive spended on it coz the market as you all know is really bad nowadays so for now i just stick to hire and fly for me its at the moment the best and cost effective way my trike cost me 160 grand just to get all right and ready and i only flew with it like 30hours for the whole year i had it plus in that year i had to buy alot of small end and pieces costing me and arm and a leg for only small silly things if ived hire and fly from the beginning i wouldhaved saved a lot of money and could still fly for 3years with the rest of the budget its just funny im in the truck,plant and machinery busness with is also hard to do these days but for ex, if i have to go and buy a brand new complete engine for my truck it cost me 120 grand almost as much as a 582 blue top now but th3 difference is my motor can do 800 000 km on that motor before it needs to be checked out for wear and tear plus its a mutch more expensive thing as its 20 times bigger and has 3000 times more components than a small 582 yet its the same price iys only becuase a 582 is used for luxury and a truck for work plus the guys who is the sole agend for rotax in sa makes a profit of 400% and i know that for a fact coz ive had a can am leisure dealership a few year back and also had to close down due to people who cant afford these high prices anymore the can am quads also has rotax motors fitted with duel ignition per cylinder etc etc and i know what our cost prices was compared to the retail price and i could not drop my prices for parts as the company would then took my dealership license away because then the other dealerships would go and complain to the agency coz in your contract yoh have a suggested retail price and every dealer must comply with it or else .... but ya their making a killing out of us and eventually they,ll kill the sport ive seen a cobra fitted with a yaris engine fully completed abd man it goes nice but its also standing coz the owner doeznt want to fly anymore due to money issues !

Welcome to the forum Airbender Bravo.
I read your piece with interest but... man! Put some fullstops at the ends and capital letters at the start of sentences. I was totally out of breath reading that lot all in one go and trying to decipher where a sentence starts and where another stops.

[ZULU1]

I see the ecoyota motor is 80 hp, a 3 cylinder Aygo motor, 1,000 cc made in the czech republic, it has a belt reduction drive, fuel injection. Maybe put a 912 gearbox on it. You can buy a whole Aygo for a 582 motor.

Seems as the best solution as yet if it had a gearbox. Toyotas dont go wrong so it is a logical choice. Buy a container load of motors from crashed Aygos from Europe..same as the Peugeot and Citroen. Make the engine control worms locally.

[Turbo]

Geese how did we go from economic downfall to engines... Then again who cares we all love engines, and while on that topic here's my "educated" 2cents worth.

1) Rotax sucks!!! All it has is name -- period!!
2) the Chinese make most of the rotax parts, this I can confirm from having seen it in person!
3) the Chinese have alternative motors which cost less than 30% of the Rotax that all who have them, have been 'forced' to ,due to no other alternatives available.
4) I have seen a chinese engine (on video) operate and fly rings around a rotax 582 by comparison --apples with apples
5) I'm meeting the Chinese company in shanghai in less than 3 weeks and will bring back pictures and specs--- JUST FOR INTEREST SAKES!! No I won't import them ... Maybe for myself who knows.

The price for a 4cyl 2stroke engine from this company which produces 85HP (with dyno proof) costs just over R50K supplied with double mags, tuned exhaust etc etc etc in fact it is the same company that manufactures most of the Czech engines for them- which came from the horses mouth on the one Czech engine manufacturers web page. Companies name is Jincheng www.jincheng.com which is a R4B company ... Yes BILLION!

I have been doing PLENTY research into aviation since I started flying, and have saved so much money due to this research since, and I can tell you 90% of the companies out there are RIPPING you off! Especially Rotax! In their case monopoly equals name and they charge the earth for their product because of it. IM NOT SAYING ITS A POOR PRODUCT, IM NOT SAYING IT IS A POOR QUALITY PRODUCT, IM NOT SAYING ITS UNRELIABLE, -- I AM SAYING ITS A RIPP OFF! YES THERE ARE ALTERNATIVES WHICH BOLT ON IN PLACE OF THE ROTAX JUST LOOK AROUND!

Briggs FOR ONE, is an ancient product and a darn good one! I have run 25HP NOS on a 13HP lawn,owner engine which was 6 years old and NEVER BEEN SERVICED EVER!! That thing was then transplanted into a bar stool .... Yes a bar stool and is running still today! Nissan 1400 eat your heart out....

Wow I'm waffling off here - enough said, I can see this is gonna peev some of you off, so off I go before I get shot!

[Beech55]

I agree one cant keep up with this its really getting bad now thats why i sold my trike i bought it 2 years ago for 90 grand and coz i was new to the flying sport the guy took me for an ass and sold me an unflyable and unsave machine cost me another 70000 just to get it in the sky savely sold it 1 year after for 60 grand less than ive spended on it coz the market as you all know is really bad nowadays so for now i just stick to hire and fly for me its at the moment the best and cost effective way my trike cost me 160 grand just to get all right and ready and i only flew with it like 30hours for the whole year i had it plus in that year i had to buy alot of small end and pieces costing me and arm and a leg for only small silly things if ived hire and fly from the beginning i wouldhaved saved a lot of money and could still fly for 3years with the rest of the budget its just funny im in the truck,plant and machinery busness with is also hard to do these days but for ex, if i have to go and buy a brand new complete engine for my truck it cost me 120 grand almost as much as a 582 blue top now but th3 difference is my motor can do 800 000 km on that motor before it needs to be checked out for wear and tear plus its a mutch more expensive thing as its 20 times bigger and has 3000 times more components than a small 582 yet its the same price iys only becuase a 582 is used for luxury and a truck for work plus the guys who is the sole agend for rotax in sa makes a profit of 400% and i know that for a fact coz ive had a can am leisure dealership a few year back and also had to close down due to people who cant afford these high prices anymore the can am quads also has rotax motors fitted with duel ignition per cylinder etc etc and i know what our cost prices was compared to the retail price and i could not drop my prices for parts as the company would then took my dealership license away because then the other dealerships would go and complain to the agency coz in your contract yoh have a suggested retail price and every dealer must comply with it or else .... but ya their making a killing out of us and eventually they,ll kill the sport ive seen a cobra fitted with a yaris engine fully completed abd man it goes nice but its also standing coz the owner doeznt want to fly anymore due to money issues !

Welcome to the forum Airbender Bravo.
I read your piece with interest but... man! Put some fullstops at the ends and capital letters at the start of sentences. I was totally out of breath reading that lot all in one go and trying to decipher where a sentence starts and where another stops.

Hey Duck, hoe gaan dit? Gee die man n break, hy is obviously n boerseun soos ons. Wanneer laas het jy n storie in Frans geskryf?

[Tumbleweed]

The issue is whether the escalation of established parts and brands are out growing our expendable cash flow to afford it or whether interest in flying is dwindling.

Whether its fuel, hangarage, compliance drama e.t.c. second hand aircraft today are battling to sell for the same price as 4 years ago.

[justin.schoeman]

There are also other power sport engines:

http://www.weber-motor.com/index.php?id=199&L=1

Basic engine has similar specs to a 582. Weighs 52 kg, and I believe they retail for around USD 4000. And since it is an MPE, it is designed as a simple self-contained power plant.

This company is working on an aero conversion:

http://www.aeroshop.it/index_2.htm

Although their price could be a bit better.

[Airbender bravo]

Hey Duck, hoe gaan dit? Gee die man n break, hy is obviously n boerseun soos ons. Wanneer laas het jy n storie in Frans geskryf? 

Ja darm iemand wat my taal verstaan hahaha dankie .
Ek is ja ek bly op n wilsplaas .
Kupala game ranch ,het ook n runway as iemand eendag wil kom land ,
ek is so 6nm sw van roodekopjies dam ,kokoriba.

[Turbo]

here is the chinese engine -- impressive

[justin.schoeman]

here is the chinese engine -- impressive

Looks nice, but is 2 stroke really the way to go now, with fuel prices being what they are? A truly cost-effective replacement for the 582 should be 4 stroke.

[John Boucher]

I must admit, I have a keen interest in the links that Justin provided... I'm sure the BMW 800 motor would work then...

The Chinese setup has links it seems with Verner....

[Bundy]

My question is... is it not cheaper to import direct from overseas? Talking Rotax now...through USA perhaps? I honestly don't know so please educate me.... How much money is the "Taliban" actually making on these parts and engines?...rumor is A LOT!

Nobody know?