Getting to the root of the problem mpl vs ppl

[RAPCON]

In terms of training, what differences are there between PPL and MPL?

[Eggbeater]

Hi All

I must be missing something because I cannot see the sense of this thread.

I fly a gyro and, quite honestly, I dont give a damn what anyone may think of that. If you don't like it then leave it. Alternatively you may consider doing something anatomically impossible to yourself (before anyone gets the wrong idea - I mean strangling yourself).

Yes, there are those who think that bigger is better but this is not really the case for would one really use a soup ladle to stir a cut of coffee. I want to fly when I want to (weather permitting) with a minimum of fuss and hassle. This means that I have to own the aircraft so a 737 is out. I also do not want high fuel bills and expensive maintence costs so most of the USA germinated aircraft are out (what with crankshaft problems on the Lycoming or Continental motors and the like - no way).

I also want a relatively new aircraft so again, it comes down to something unAmerican.

To be honest, it seems to me as though this thread stems from a feeling that microlight pilots are not being recognised as pilots. What nonsense. A pilot is "a person who operates the flying controls of an aircraft, balloon, spacecraft etc." and that is that. If some newly quallified commercial pilot thinks that, to make up for discovering that he is not God's gift to humankind or that, despite the fact that he is humankind does not seem to acknowlede this, he must try to put you down because you have a job, your own aircraft and do not have to wait for someone to pay you before you fly, then you should view him with pity and great sadness. Also, if you really have a good look at the detractors, you will find that the great percentage of them have not made it yet. Conversely, look at all those who do not knock microlights and the like and you will find that the vast majority of them have made it and do not need to prove anything to anyone.

I suppose that if there is a message to this post then that is it, do not get angry at your detractors, pity them for the chances are that you are doing something they would love to do but, for some reason, cannot.

[ForensicFlyer]

Eggbeater...

I think you have a good, valid point...

I also think (my opinion) that no-one is actually getting "angry" but rather just expressing their opinions passionately...

I have followed this thread carefully, and - thankfully - no-one seems to be generalizing either way.

What this is all about (this forum) is, and probably was intended to be, about free speech expression, exchange of idea and opinions and general banter about whatever the fancy of the moment might be.

I am SURE there are VERY nice PEOPLE out there and very BAD people as well - but that does not make humanity bad or good.

But - considering some of the experiences alluded to here, I would imagine that it relates to the "bad taste" left in the mouths of some by others.

Again - take us as an example - I am considered a "haas-man" by most police officers. They somehow believe that a private forensic specialist is "not a real cop." We were never trying to be cops. The fact that we are more equipped, more skilled, more experienced and better paid makes them even more "jealous."

I mean, at a stage we were using two Volvo S40's as response vehicles. The "professional jealousy" went so far, the HEAD of legal services (a director, nogal) actually ASKED us (in an open meeting) to get rid of the Volvo's, since we "intimidate their members!"

So you see, the world will always be full of supporters and opposition for all os us.

The saddest thing of all is, here in good old South Africa, the plumber will do everything in his power to close down the business of the motor mechanic!

Why? South Africans are (mostly) braaivleis, rugby "sonskyn" and chevrolet people. And family get-togethers used to be the norm. That's where uncle Bob comes to the braai with his Merc, so uncle John bad-mouths him coz he "thinks his ass doesn't stink."

And we heard this as kids, and probably learned to think like that.

Perhaps there is ONE important lesson to be learned from this thread: Human Nature can be surprising and illogical at times.

Yet this makes us who we are...

I still love aviation, planes, flying, pilots and their wives/girlfriends all the same...

Here's to excellent times in the skies for everyone!

I think I've said enough now, yes?

[RAPCON]

OK, so my question wasn’t as interesting to ya’all as it was to me. What I would like to know is, are MPL students trained just as well, or better, than PPL students. Are the same subjects covered by both? I understand that the MPL requires fewer hours to complete. Why is that?

[RV4ker (RIP)]

OK, so my question wasn’t as interesting to ya’all as it was to me. What I would like to know is, are MPL students trained just as well, or better, than PPL students. Are the same subjects covered by both? I understand that the MPL requires fewer hours to complete. Why is that?

Assume you talking about 3 axis. Trikes are a different beast completely. Control systems are opposite and there no rudder, but having said that the theory is very similar....

Think it got to do with the complexity of 3 axis Ml's when the laws were written. The machines in those days were small, simple and light. There were few systems and hardly any instruments (radio's are still optional if not in controlled airspace). Pre flights were basically P!ss in the tanks, kick the tires & light the fires...

The typical MPL pilot had few aspirations to go the comm route and thus was trained to fly his chosen aerie. Only 1 Pax and thus ltd exposure. This has however changed and many (most) will not complete the MPL in the min 25hrs. Most are closer to the PPL mark.... I think for eg the days of 3 axis ML's s ltd and assume we will follow USA with Sport Pilot. PPL training is the start to ALTP, so training was based on teaching pupe to fly any aircraft (read more PAX).

Not fact, just my opinion....

PS
Difference between MPL on a Jabi and PPL on a Jabi is IMHO merely hrs. Training is very similar.... The medicals are also different, but I don't know the differences? Class 2 vs class 4?

[RAPCON]

RV4ker, that answers my question. So if both pilots are trained equally, what seems to be the problem? Why would a PPL think him any better than a MPL?

[RV4ker (RIP)]

RV4ker, that answers my question. So if both pilots are trained equally, what seems to be the problem? Why would a PPL think him any better than a MPL?

Their theoretical "ablity" (rather right) to fly a "real" aerie? These guys are in the minority and I agree with eggie...

I suppose that if there is a message to this post then that is it, do not get angry at your detractors, pity them for the chances are that you are doing something they would love to do but, for some reason, cannot.

On the lighter side....
Guy is sitting in a pub at a military airbase in his flight suit trying to impress the locals. The barmaid asks him if he flies. Yessireeebobette he says. What may I ask do you fly she quips in awe of this demigod. Well now Hun, JewSeee that there big boy over there (pointing to a C130 Herc taxi'ing in). Yes she says with baited breath. Well now that there is a C130...

I fly a C150

[Ballistic]

Hey there Dieselfan

I know what u mean, well a while ago I had to go to dinner with one of my girlfriends mates and her CPL boyfriend (he flies Hercules for the UN ) and it soon dawned on me that this dude had a bit of an air around himself so I focused the conversation on what he really wanted to fly which was Boeings 737 and the fact that he dint have a TCPL shame man poor dude totally got the wind taken out of his sails because u know what there was a lot of bigger and better plains out there then what he flies ………………and that is how I always handle this type of thing instead of going onto the defensive and trying to explain how safe and how relaiable my trike is. Same with that dude with the Cessna is it a 140 or a 175 but im sure u catch my drift.

ANYWAY GUYS I THINK WE ARE WAY TO OVERSENSITIVE ABOUT THIS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REALLY

[Tumbleweed]

I have observed an element of apathy amonst some ppl'. For some, they've ticked off a milestone and now hardly fly.

At over R1000.00 p/ h in your own aerie, they've covered the few registered airfileds in one hour radius so often, I was told it's become boring.

Shame

We should try and give a flip to as many as possible.

[GR8-DAD]

.... me that this dude had a bit of an air around himself so I focused ....

Hopefully all pilots have a bit of air around themselves, especially when airborne

There are 15 people queing at the bank, how will you know which one is the pilot?


He will say so!

[Ballistic]

Yes DAD!

[DieselFan]

It's not about being oversensitive, I'm not losing sleep etc, it's just annoying and after it being in my face one too many times I decided to find out what is the issue and see what other people think / experience?

Looking at Morphs reply "Good question" - Thats all it is. Besides it has to be of some importance when one looks at the hits and posts on both Avcom and here?

I honestly wonder what the pilots in my first post would say if I said I flew F15's? If their response is different, then a large factor has to be the wanting what we can't afford syndrome? Which goes back to the elitest attitude, perhaps they don't like the idea of every Joe Soap flying?

If the above is true then, it's a bit like some holiday resorts who were well priced but after certain "types" of people started coming they up'd the prices.

[Eggbeater]

Hi again All

Just on the question of which training is better and density altitude, you may as well ask which university in South Africa offers the best biological science Bachelor's degree.

I was trained at Kestrel Flight School which does not offer the standard courses so I had to attend and pass lectures at Lanseria Flight Centre on Law, Radio, Navigation and Meteorology. My instructor had to do the bits on airframes and engines and principles of flight because these are not offered at any convnetional school. So yes, I know all about density altitude as it affecs a C172 particularly and I also know how to do the load/balance for a C172. Difference between the courses I did and the PPL courses - none. We attended the same courses and sat the same exams.

Do I feel superior to my PPL coursemates? No
Do I feel inferior to them? You must be joking.

In fact I don't think about it and if any pilot, be it a balloon or spacecraft pilot thinks that he is superior to me then go back to my first post on this thread and read the bit about the anatomically impossible things.

[Ballistic]

Sorry don’t mean to let u think that I thought it wasn’t important it is and it is something everybody had to deal with from time to time so there is a lot of opinions about this and it is something that gets most people hot under the color if someone look down on u because of what u fly, but I realized that it will always be there so I might as well deal with it and not let it bother me, but like u said u don’t lose sleep over it so then its all that counts

[Morph]

Well,

I have been through the entire posting on Avcom on this same subject and there are more positives there, than negatives here.

I am sure that everything comes down to perception. I drive a 1600golf and I meet someone with a new GTI. Don't you sense that he looks down at you. Go to a bike rally on a 400cc and talk to the boys who have the latest GSXR1000 again, don't you sense they look down at you. Now being an MPL (it only takes 25 hours to get a licence) and you talk to a PPL(that only takes 40 hours to get a licence that I might add is too expensive for him to maintain so your 150 hours flying in the last year does not equate to his barely affordable 10 hours), let me hear it, "don't you sense they look down at you". Now take a CPL who have hundreds of hours. When they talk to a mere 10 hour a year PPL , yes here we go again, "Dont they sense that you are being looked down upon once again"

And the thing I get out of this is " it's just a sense, self imposed". What matters more to me is the real sense of excitement, sometimes fear and apprehension I get (not some idiot who thinks he is a MPL, PPL, CPL, Astronaut) prior to flying my own, fully maintained, funded, affordable aircraft on a long distance trip, albeit only 400nm in the same time they do 5000nm. This is life, not the idiot with the bright shiny label that says, Look at me I am a Pilot, MPL, PPL, CPL, Astronaut, Angel