Proposed A.D.M. Training Discussion

[Bundy]

Bundy perhaps worthwhile to take a look at what Mike is doing here: http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=240

May be some scope to develop together - as the decision making being discussed is not isolated to the particular type flown.

I will definitely get in touch with him for ideas, thanks Rog.

[Air Hog]

I take my hat of for Bundy and John for at least trying to do something for the MISASA members. For the first time since I joined MISASA 6 years ago, I can see something being done for the members. Please note, I am not saying that nothing was done in the past but at least there is a request for some member's input for something to make Flying safer. Lets not shoot this down, rather give some positive input to make it work.
At no stage was it suggested that after this course you will be able to take bigger risks and become a more reckless pilot. That is not the idea although you will get the odd arrogant windgat pilot that will think he can. Please note, you will ALWAYS get Pilots that are reckless and arrogant, like the one mentioned for flying low in a buildup area. They have an inferior complexion and must always show off. Not even a Chief Flying Instructor is going to stop them. (I know because my CFI have tried to stop a local Pilot from being an ass and eventually this pilot was banned because of bad influence on student pilots.) NOT EVEN CAA unless they catch them in action and take their licence away.
They normally end up a statistic and a further bad reputation for the Microlight Community.
This must be a volunteer course for pilots that want to improve their flying skills. Why want to stop it??

The whole idea of this course is to make it safer, so lets keep it positive.

[John.com]

I take my hat of for Bundy and John for at least trying to do something for the MISASA members. For the first time since I joined MISASA 6 years ago, I can see something being done for the members. Please note, I am not saying that nothing was done in the past but at least there is a request for some member's input for something to make Flying safer. Lets not shoot this down, rather give some positive input to make it work.
At no stage was it suggested that after this course you will be able to take bigger risks and become a more reckless pilot. That is not the idea although you will get the odd arrogant windgat pilot that will think he can. Please note, you will ALWAYS get Pilots that are reckless and arrogant, like the one mentioned for flying low in a buildup area. They have an inferior complexion and must always show off. Not even a Chief Flying Instructor is going to stop them. (I know because my CFI have tried to stop a local Pilot from being an ass and eventually this pilot was banned because of bad influence on student pilots.) NOT EVEN CAA unless they catch them in action and take their licence away.
They normally end up a statistic and a further bad reputation for the Microlight Community.
This must be a volunteer course for pilots that want to improve their flying skills. Why want to stop it??

The whole idea of this course is to make it safer, so lets keep it positive.

+1

A positive, balanced and educated response!

[Hazzard]

How can training, of any sort, provided positive and well-constructed, not be a good idea. Alan, good stuff.

While on the issue of furthering skills, you chaps may remember a short while back a PAX, (I think in the USA), had his pilot rendered unable to fly while in the air, (I think the pilot passed away). Anyway, the PAX had to land the plane with the help of ground assistance. How many times do we go for a trip with our spouses, not thinking what would happen if something happened to us. I would like to see “PAX TRAINING” added to the list of good ideas. The PAX does not have to learn how to fly….only to land safely, to use the radio and to understand basic functions and controlls!
Your thoughts?
Regards,

[John Boucher]

A couple of us have discussed the idea of PAX training (loved ones) in case of incapacitation but oh boy that is opening a can of worms if people are even opposed to the ADM.

I have started with my family (every time we go fly) with a simplistic familiarization of controls etc. (straight and level etc.) for just that reason and I know I'm gonna get "bliksemed" because I even dared suggest that!

[skybound®]

We did offer a formal course at AFC for a 'spouses safety pilot' type rating. Bascially it is abput half a PPL and conducted in accordance with a noraml PPL sylabus - just the student never completes the course or receives a PPL - but it is sufficient to allow the spouse to land . Don't see why it could not be conducted on the same basis for a Part 62 licence.

[alanmack]

Great idea.

Implementation suggestions:
In 2008, MISASA issued a DVD to all members. The DVD "cover" had an invitation to join a Wild Coast Fly-away on it and it had two folders on it. One with a "Wild coast" video on it and the other folder had two PDF files in it. These were:
FAA-H-8083-5.pdf
and
FAA-H-8083-25A.pdf

If you Google these titles you will find them eg > Download the Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge - FAA In summary these are the American manuals issued by the American CAA. They are outstanding.

My "cautionary" is that we must not "leave" matters for "advanced" discussion - student pilots must be given the lot! Their safety and capability is no less important than seasoned pilots. The difference really boils down to that the student will be given the theory the seasoned pilot will be able to share why it is critically important. I have always had a problem with advanced flight training. The problem lies in the notion that student pilots can be offered less. I do recall being "thrown" out of the nest as I wanted more and more during my training. Longer flights, turbulence, altitude to find favourable winds, short field beach training, rain, wind and more. I did nearly 3 times the minimum as a student and never regretted it. That some of this experience gained should have been left for an advanced course is not, in my opinion, a good idea.

In the latest mag you will see that I have included a summary of accidents/incidents for the year after Alex's feedback report. It's a wopping 208 paged edition that is currently in print and it will be posted in about a week to paid up members with correct addresses.

What about we issue a DVD each year with flight training manuals on it ( they are huge downloads that many will not have the bandwidth for) together with comments by seasoned pilots on aspects in these manuals and we include videoed commentary by seasoned pilots on close encounters, all the mentioned tough decisions that may be faced etc. Our Safety Officer can review, on video, the years accidents and the lessons to be learned. Pilots can send in video clips and or stories to be added to the video. Note that most people have perfectly adequate video cameras on their phones.

In this way the knowledge can be shared with all, it can be added to each year and back issues can be provided to student pilots. It can form the basis for "hangar talk" discussions each year all over the country. In conclusion - a great idea but I am nervous about the "advanced" branding - call it continuous skills development and I will tick all the boxes in the vote to get it approved.

Fly safe

[John Boucher]

I think a lot of confusion and apprehension has arisen because initially it was thought to be an "ADVANCED COURSE OFFERING".

IT IS NOT.... IT IS AERONAUTICAL DECISION MAKING!!!!

I agree with Alan Mac that it should be presented to all pilots - experienced pilots and of course pilots just qualifying.

If the POLL that has been posted is being positively received then why not?

[Bundy]

The white flag has been raised....I'm trully spent.

I thank those of you who saw the value in what I was trying to do here. To be honest you are the one's who would not have benefitted from this as you are already seeking ways to better yourselves and your skills all on your own. No extra's needed...

I have been blindsided by views and opinions that make no sense to me but I cannot put in the work and time into a project that has apathy and ignorance biting at it's heels at every step of the way. The critic's both here and elsewhere have a lot to say but offer no alternative to improving our dismal safety record? To them I say...yes I stood up out of the trench and was gunned down...I hope you will have the courage to do the same one day.

I will have to try and convince myself that each year more of our friends will perish in stupid accidents and that there is nothing that can be done? That's just the way it is. As a public representative I have tried and failed in every sense of the word. This issue has truly taken the wind out of my sails....I just don't have the energy anymore to fight a losing battle.

So be it.

Over and out.

[Air Hog]

.

[John Boucher]

Johan, your post is one post I will not remove!

Here we have a project that would definitely add value. I had a look at AVCOM and some of the opinionated gents there iro the Aeroclub's Safety First campaign (or just a platform to lash out at CAA) AOPA SA's spokesman comes out bashing the program and also not being complimentary towards Liewe Heksie (who voluntarily gives her heart and soul to S&R) yet, when you look at AOPA International and other organizations and see how high ADM (as well as CRM) is on their safety drives and agenda.

I supported Alan from day one on this project and applaud him for his drive to "make the difference" and implore him not to back down...

[Hazzard]

I too fully and absolutely support the Alan initiative. To those that do not want to be involved, I remember a letter sent to me by a girl in Estcourt High when we were writing matric...
The more you learn, the more you forget; the more you forget, the less you know; the less you know, the less you forget.....so why learn.
I never did follow-up after finals to see if she actually passed!!!
I did learn and did pass and that is how I can now afford to fly!!!!
BOTTOM LINE: The better informed you are, the better decisions you can make. To the detractors….fly on!