Indemnity Form Needed

[Smiley]

Hi there!

Can somebody maybe send me your standard indemnity form you use when taking the public for flips...?

r i a a n v @ r o b o r . c o . z a


It will be much appreciated!!!

[Tailspin]

I have one.

See if this wirks for you.

Regards

Tailspin

[Smiley]

Perfect!!

Thanks Tailspin!

[MADDOG]

Well Done Smiley!

What is her name?

[Smiley]

Well Done Smiley!

What is her name?

Minky van der Westhuizen.... and I've organised her brother for you....

[MADDOG]

Thanks man.

Does he wash planes?

[Smiley]

Thanks man.

Does he wash planes?

Yup, he does deep cleaning of motors and stuff...

[Bundy]

I have often wondered about this...

Are these forms really worth the paper they are written on? In the event of injury or death, will these forms protect the PIC or owner of the aircraft from civil suits based on pilot error? I have heard that if they can prove negligence, the party will still be able to sue you? I am of the belief that at least 80% of accidents are the direct result of pilot errorand with figures like that it would mean that 80% of the time these contracts will be null and void?

Any lawyers out there who care to comment? How do we trully protect ourselves from PAX lawsuits? Surely they must take some of the "risk".... They are aware that flying IS dangerous and that they can get seriously hurt or worse should something go wrong up there. We dont force them into the passenger seat...

Regards,

[Thatchman]

Better than nothing but certaintly does not mean you will not be held accountable.

Also does not stop the estate or spouse of deceased pax from having a go as they signed nothing.

Reading Avcom it looks like the insurance Co of the two Albats is not going to pay as they say it was pilot negligence. Opens the door for family and estates of the deaceased pax's to have a go at the pilots estate.

Bottom line is you cannot limit your liability if you are negligent and negligence can be a very grey area.

[Bundy]

Thats the scary thing about taking up PAX Thatch... its all fun and games till someone gets hurt.

If I took up a PAX and crashed and I was lets say flying into bad weather or drinking (will never happen!) beforehand then I could understand the negligence part.... but..... If I come in to land for eg, and catch a bad gust and roll. Even that could be described as "negligence" . As you say, its a grey area!

I have taken up a lot of PAX so far, simply because I love sharing our experiences with people who dont get the chance to, but I am starting to think that its maybe not such a good idea? I also have PAX sign a similar Indemnity as the one above but I dont know what good it will be in the end?

Better than nothing as you say I suppose...

[Gyronaut]

Bundy, I have also wondered about the legality or value of the indemnity that I get people to sign. Would also like to hear a legal opinion on this. There must be lawyers amongst us?

As I understand it, an indemnity has no effect if Gross Negligence is shown. I would imagine, as a vehicle driver, your passenger can sue you for damages as a result of gross negligence? The individual must be aware that there is a risk of injury or even death and they must consciously accept this risk otherwise they must not sign and therefore cannot fly with me.

Gross negligence is a conscious and voluntary disregard of the need to use reasonable care, which is likely to cause foreseeable grave injury or harm to persons, property, or both. It is conduct that is extreme when compared with ordinary Negligence, which is a mere failure to exercise reasonable care.

I also believe one cannot sign away any of your basic human rights. One of those, of course, is the right to life.

[Tailspin]

I have signed a Indemnity even when flying with another pilot and I have also let my Pax sign an Indemnity. But I also make sure that I take them on days that are not marginal in any way.
That way I get to know that I have a better chance of not making a screw up, as to taking them on a day that I am not 100% comfortable with and I end up making a mistake and then the guns come out.

[MADDOG]

An indemnity is basically a waiver of YOUR right to recourse in the event of loss or injury. YOU waiver YOUR right to claim.

You cannot, however waiver someone elses right to recourse, ie your dependents rights to recourse.

So you ask me for a flip, you sign an indemity, and off we go.
We have an accident, not even negligence involved, you get hurt and are off work for a year. You cannot sue me because you waivered your rights, BUT your family CAN sue me for their loss of income. So indemnity bacically means Nil.

Now even worse, we are both wiped out, Lawyers get involved big time and everyone except the lawyers lose out.

[Tailspin]

So makes you think.

Is it worth taking somebody for a FLIPPING FLIP

[Thatchman]

How about no pax, u crash and get wiped out and your ex or future ex sues your estate for loss of meal ticket.

F%$@ that lets all sell our aeries and take up lawn bowls

ok maybe not