NIC PRINSLOO

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Air Hog
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby Air Hog » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:00 am

Moral of the story is: Newbies should not buy without the assistance of an experienced person. Applicable to ALL aircraft!
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby BONZAI BELL » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:08 am

T-Bird
You are 100% correct about most guys who want to start flying Gyros. This was my first intro in the aviation industry, and i was very ignorant.
All the info about the gyro i bought , was available in the airframe log book. So anybody familiar with aircraft would have known to ask for this book.
At the time , i never knew that an airframe log book existed.
The moment the AP walked into the hanger at Springs airfield, and looked at my gyro , and recocnised the reg. no. he asked me if i had the history on the gyro.
I remember still saying , yes , it has only done 86 hrs , and i was told by the agent and the owner that there were no incidents regarding the gyro.
The next thing he asked me was , can i see the airframe logbook. i replied that i did not know what it was. i then looked in the bag which i got with the gyro,
remembering that i saw some books. aha , is this what you were looking for. He took the book from me , paged through it , and then showed me that it was in a serious
accident and was completely rebuilt.
So , all the evidence was there , in the bag i was carrying around , and i did not know about it.

If nothing is done about this now, we will just hear more stories like this in time to come
ZU-EOL
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby BONZAI BELL » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:39 am

Air Hog wrote:Moral of the story is: Newbies should not buy without the assistance of an experienced person. Applicable to ALL aircraft!
Hi Air Hog

At the time i got interested in gyros , i did not know anybody in the industry. My first step was to find out , who was selling gyros , then went and looked at different types, and just took the next step until i bought the gyro.
I think the biggest challange is , how do you guide a newby that starts his own investigation. We must also keep in mind , he does not know about the forum , where he can get valuable information , like for instance this thread
As far as i am concerned , the answer lies here:
Nic is a pleasant person . He needs to come to the party , and by now i think he realizes the how serious these allegations are against him. He should come clean and stay clean.
it is not that difficult
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby Splinter » Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:56 am

Also our gyro was advertised with 49h. Only found out from Anthony during the insspection that the ECU/TCU hours did not match the hobbs. Gyro had more than 100h on it according to the electronics. In our case the logbooks for the gyro went missing so we could not view the hours or incidents. Even if we had the logbooks the bent undercarriage would not have been in there as it was not fixed yet. In hindsight we should have pulled out of the purchase as soon as we hit the 1st bump. This is unfortunately where Nic refuses to give back your holding deposit even though there are undisclosed problems with the machine.

After many not so friendly emails, Mr Prinsloo even tried making more money off us when I advertised our microlights for sale. Received a PM that I should let him sell the microlights for us...... I kindly told him to go.................. you get my point.

In my honest opinion no one should buy an aircraft through him.
Lower, Lower ...........
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby t-bird » Thu Jun 05, 2014 11:47 am

Hi Splinter
Log books for an aircraft is not the same as your cars service manual.

Lost logbooks have to be reported to the police and CAA.

My flightbag with flight folio in was stolen out of my gyro. CAA required not just an affidavit but a police case number for the stolen document.

I feel really sorry for you guys, I know how exciting it could be when buying your first aeroplane and learning how to fly.
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby Lodewyk Engels » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:26 pm

I don't know the regs wrt NTCA or Gyro's, but I agree with the above posters. The first things I always ask when shopping, are the logbooks - ALL OF THEM. Although these are not the alpha and omega, any repairs, damage history, etc should be recorded in the logbooks. In the past, I also opted to work directly with the owner. If an agent is part of the deal, I'd agree with him on his commission and what he would be responsible for, in turn. As for the rest, I always negotiate and sort that out, directly and in person with the owner.
It's a real bummer when you trust someone, spend a lot of money, just to find out that you were scammed. :x
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby Air Hog » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:56 pm

BONZAI BELL wrote:
Air Hog wrote:Moral of the story is: Newbies should not buy without the assistance of an experienced person. Applicable to ALL aircraft!
Hi Air Hog

At the time i got interested in gyros , i did not know anybody in the industry. My first step was to find out , who was selling gyros , then went and looked at different types, and just took the next step until i bought the gyro.
I think the biggest challange is , how do you guide a newby that starts his own investigation. We must also keep in mind , he does not know about the forum , where he can get valuable information , like for instance this thread
As far as i am concerned , the answer lies here:
Nic is a pleasant person . He needs to come to the party , and by now i think he realizes the how serious these allegations are against him. He should come clean and stay clean.
it is not that difficult
I Agree with you, all I am trying to say is, lets learn from this. I think it is stupid of an inexperience (wanabee pilot) to buy any aircraft/Gyro without the assistance from someone that knows the market/product. We are talking a lot of money, especially if it is a Gyro and they can buy themselves a lot of problems. We all are willing to help new pilots. Just ask!
Johan Welman - aka Air Hog
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby mak » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:34 pm

I agree with everybody, there is just too much doubt about Mr Nic Prinsloo's and his Eagle Aviation's ethic to even consider doing business with him. Unfortunately he is not the only one in the gyro fraternity that has a bad track record and there is some horror stories about other people and companies out there as well. Unfortunately people (not only newbies to the industry) keeps on going back to these people and doing business with them because they think they can save a few bucks and/or get a bargain.
Yes, we as SAGPA will assist and advice newbies, but can not publicly advertise, based on hear say, not to do business with all these companies with bad reputations. We will spend all our member's fees on court cases for defamation claims.
I like the idea of publishing a list of items and things to do when purchasing a gyro on the SAGPA website as well as on the Microlighters website. The only challenge is to get the newbies to read the information before making a purchase.

Splinter, in your case, as I have explained to you previously, I don't think Mr Prinsloo was wrong in this instance. I knew the gyro very well that you talk about and witnessed most of it's flights (of which 48 of the 49 was with an instructor and I witnessed the 1 and only solo flight that the former owner did with this gyro) and I can assure you it definitely wasn't even a hard landing or an accident. The "bent" undercarriage that you talk about was not a bent undercarriage and could definitely not have been from the flying as you suggest and the former owner most definitely didn't know about it either and Mr Prinsloo sure also couldn't have known about it. The previous owner was just as shocked to find out about it because he flew it like that for 49 hours. I also discussed this with the agent as it was strange to me and he said the only explanation was the composite material didn't cure properly in the factory and it seemed like some sort of delamination in that specific section. Unfortunately this was under the section where they stick a patch on, to step on when you inspect the rotor. I stand to be corrected, but as far as I know, the hub bar upgrade that you talk about wasn't mandatory. I can't remember from our Ela, but I think you could upgrade to the better aerodynamic hub bar only if you preferred, it wasn't mandatory. On the hobbs issue, I know the gyro has only flown 49 hours, as I witnessed most of it and saw the gyro stand in the hanger next to our gyro for the next year. I know the owner paid the local AP to wash and start the gyro once a week for a run-up. The AP told me that at some stage he had to replace the hobbs meter and wasn't exactly sure what it was suppose to read and made it 100 hours. In fact I think the TCU at that stage read 87 hours while the hobbs was 100. So I think 87 was closer to being correct. Regarding your payment agreement I can't comment as I don't know what was agreed.

Can the moderators perhaps make a sticky with "My buying experience" or "Things to know when buying a new gyro" where good and bad buying service can be posted and we put a list of "to do's" in there and hopefully newby buyers will read it before making a purchase or deposit.

As in Splinters case above, we must just make sure that we get both sides of the story and remember that not everyone reads microlighters to defend themselves.
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby t-bird » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:08 am

Another point to add to the buyers list

Get a TCU printout before buying

This will confirm the number of engine hours. Only the Magni’s flydat read the TCU for engine hours the rest of the Gyros use a separate hobbs meter. The engine charging the battery activate the hobs meter , the readings will be wrong if you have a charging problem.

This is important when you have an engine problem as Rotax will only except the TCU hours.

The engine manual could stipulate oil changes at 100 hours which you have done per the hobbs ,but if you reconcile it to TCU hours it could end up at 80 hours and then 120 hours, do you see the problem.

I think the TCU printout can also give info as to if the engine was over speeded, over heated , over boosted etc

The TCU is the turbo control unit that log’s engine parameters and hours. These parameters can be downloaded with a serial cable to a laptop with the download program on it.

Glen Meyer, Gideon etc have this program give them a call and ask them to confirm the hours and if there are any other issues.
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby Splinter » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:36 am

mak wrote:I agree with everybody, there is just too much doubt about Mr Nic Prinsloo's and his Eagle Aviation's ethic to even consider doing business with him. Unfortunately he is not the only one in the gyro fraternity that has a bad track record and there is some horror stories about other people and companies out there as well. Unfortunately people (not only newbies to the industry) keeps on going back to these people and doing business with them because they think they can save a few bucks and/or get a bargain.
Yes, we as SAGPA will assist and advice newbies, but can not publicly advertise, based on hear say, not to do business with all these companies with bad reputations. We will spend all our member's fees on court cases for defamation claims.
I like the idea of publishing a list of items and things to do when purchasing a gyro on the SAGPA website as well as on the Microlighters website. The only challenge is to get the newbies to read the information before making a purchase.

Splinter, in your case, as I have explained to you previously, I don't think Mr Prinsloo was wrong in this instance. I knew the gyro very well that you talk about and witnessed most of it's flights (of which 48 of the 49 was with an instructor and I witnessed the 1 and only solo flight that the former owner did with this gyro) and I can assure you it definitely wasn't even a hard landing or an accident. The "bent" undercarriage that you talk about was not a bent undercarriage and could definitely not have been from the flying as you suggest and the former owner most definitely didn't know about it either and Mr Prinsloo sure also couldn't have known about it. The previous owner was just as shocked to find out about it because he flew it like that for 49 hours. I also discussed this with the agent as it was strange to me and he said the only explanation was the composite material didn't cure properly in the factory and it seemed like some sort of delamination in that specific section. Unfortunately this was under the section where they stick a patch on, to step on when you inspect the rotor. I stand to be corrected, but as far as I know, the hub bar upgrade that you talk about wasn't mandatory. I can't remember from our Ela, but I think you could upgrade to the better aerodynamic hub bar only if you preferred, it wasn't mandatory. On the hobbs issue, I know the gyro has only flown 49 hours, as I witnessed most of it and saw the gyro stand in the hanger next to our gyro for the next year. I know the owner paid the local AP to wash and start the gyro once a week for a run-up. The AP told me that at some stage he had to replace the hobbs meter and wasn't exactly sure what it was suppose to read and made it 100 hours. In fact I think the TCU at that stage read 87 hours while the hobbs was 100. So I think 87 was closer to being correct. Regarding your payment agreement I can't comment as I don't know what was agreed.

Can the moderators perhaps make a sticky with "My buying experience" or "Things to know when buying a new gyro" where good and bad buying service can be posted and we put a list of "to do's" in there and hopefully newby buyers will read it before making a purchase or deposit.

As in Splinters case above, we must just make sure that we get both sides of the story and remember that not everyone reads microlighters to defend themselves.
Mak the hub bar was not an optional change. We were informed it had to be changed as there was a mod outstanding on it. If this was an optional I think someone else will be drawn into this conversation as were told it was NOT AN OPTION.
The advertised hours were 49 and the electronic timing on the TCU was very close to 100h, not more than an hour either way but I am sure it was just over (this was +3 years ago).Edited Post: View PM conversation between us on 7 April 2011 for conformation of hours at 100. It does not matter if the hobbs had to be changed. There are three times in play here, actual hours, advertised hours and hours on a changed hobbs. The two important ones are the advertised and actual as per TCU, they were not the same.

The undercarriage was bent. It does not really matter if it was a hard landing or not if he knew about it or not. I never said that Ernie or Nic had knowledge of it. We agreed that exactly half the cost would be carried by the previous owner for repairs, There is still money outstanding.
Edited Post : Please show me where I said this bent undercarriage happened during a flight Marius?

Nic is more than welcome to defend himself but to quote Lucky Number Sleven..... If someone calls you a horse, punch him in the face. If a second person calls you a horse, walk away. If a third person calls you a horse, buy a F*&king saddle. I might not be a mathematician but I count more than 3 unhappy customers on this thread.

Kind Regards
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby Gyronaut » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:53 am

:idea:
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby jacester » Sat Jun 07, 2014 9:51 am

To all on the forum, this is why it is so important to have a platform like this. And it is not that I am new to Gyro, I had a Sycamore that I flew very may happy hours on, must say with the "illegal" 33 feet rotor and absolutely loved it.
T Bird you should become an agent. I would much rather pay you than anybody else that I have been dealing with. Your positive feedback loved it.
The other huge barrier to entry currently is Finance. I cannot understand why it is so difficult to get finance. My business is doing well, I have currently 10 vehicles on my name that I am renting to clients, and finance about two per month. Yet with Business Financials, very positive bank statement, R150 000 deposit you still battle.
Do not understand it. Something to me is wrong, and I am sure it must be a huge frustration for the poor dealers. How the hell do they sell Gyros. Are all buyers cash buyers. Surely not.
This is also the reason why the second hand is so depressed.
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby t-bird » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:50 pm

Hi Gyronaut

Pink saddle in Capetown . Brokeback Table mountain perhaps.
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby THI » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:22 pm

t-bird wrote:Hi Gyronaut Pink saddle in Capetown . Brokeback Table mountain perhaps.
:lol:
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Re: NIC PRINSLOO

Postby RV12 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:04 am

Condor wrote:I have a basic contract that was drawn up by my late friend, Llewellyn Parker, a lawyer. It covers all the basics and I am willing to share this with prospective buyer/sellers.
Please share this Condor.

Thank you,

W.

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