SAGPA - defunct???

[Learjet]

Having only joined SAGPA at the begining of this year I'm starting to wonder why I bothered?

Whilst I understand the logic of having some kind of representative body - it seems that this one does little, if anything, to justify its existence.

Apparently the "membership benefits" are the following:

Membership to SAGPA holds the following benefits:

African Skies magazine

I've yet to see a single issue

A central elect-in mailing list for information exchange and pilots interested in online “hanger-talk

It would appear that this forum is far more effective. And it doesn't cost us more than half a grand a year

A Committee of volunteers dedicated to utilise the collective efforts of the members, manufacturers, suppliers and aviation organisations to make the sport safe and enjoyable

What have they actually done / doing in this regard? Please show us something....anything!!!

SAGPA website with a public and members-only section

The website is about as informative as a 3 month old newspaper. The last time the site was updated with info other than a few classified and general fly-in / airshow event listings was back in February - and this update was about Membership fees! Apparently there is no more "members area" - or so I was told when I asked for login access details. But don't bother to try and access the Aero Club minutes link on the SAGPA website...you'll be asked for a login

Affiliation to Aero Club as the current popularly recognised body that represents sports aviation South Africa
- Planned affiliation to an Aviation Recreation Organisation as regulated by NPL - Part 62

Ditto my question above - what have they done / what are they doing for us members or gyro flying in general? How is part 62 going to effect us? Other than forcing us to pay to stay (mandatory) members of a seemingly defunct organisation?

The SAGPA AGM was held nearly 2 months ago. Only a handful of members attended. Many didn't even know it was happening! What was the agenda? What was discussed? Where are the minutes? Where are the financials? Where is the feedback other than the following that was posted on the SAGPA AGM thread:

"a great weekend with the best flying I have had. We had such a lot of laughs and shared good stories."

Is this it?????

I emailed Johan directly weeks ago and conveyed some of my concerns and questions as per above. Needless to say, he never bothered to respond...

Am I the only one going to be having a long think before I write out my next membership renewal cheque for what to all intents and purposes appears to be a defunct organisation???

[Spindoctor]

Good post. It raises pertinent questions. It will be interesting to see if any other members have received any benefits and it will be interesting to see exactly what this association is doing for the greater good of the sport. I for one, while a newcomer, get the impression that the gyro community while small is completely fragmented. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[FO Gyro]

I was at the gyro AGM, and a few good ideas were thrown around, but I do agree, communications within the gyro fraternity seems to be very poor.

There seems to be more interaction within the different gyro makes eg. MT-03, Magni etc. If one is seen to be on the fringes, one doesn't seem to hear from one's association much.

[Gyronaut]

I think the 3rd Party Indemnity insurance is cheaper through SAGPA but not sure if it covers the fees. Can't think of any other benefits to me being a member so far either.

[Learjet]

Below is a copy of my original email to Johan sent on the 28th of August.
I'm still waiting for a reply...

I realise I may be rocking the boat here. Perhaps my expectations of SAGPA were over-ambitious?

Although I addressed these concerns to Johan, I'm not blaming him as a person. I appreciate that he (and others) volunteer and contribute their valuable time and services to SAGPA. the question I am asking, is for what purpose and result?

Dear Johan,

Being a new gryoplane pilot, and perhaps having been under the incorrect impression of what SAGPA is all about, please allow me to express my disappointing experience with this organisation to date.

Having joined in February this year, I have yet to receive a single issue of the so-called "Microflight Africa" magazine - does it really exist? Of course the promised SAGPA peak cap and flightsuit badge never materialised either.

The conveyance of information pertaining to gyro's and GPL's from both the Aero Club and SAGPA has been threadbare to say the least - this both in terms of SAGPA website content (little more than an updated airshow and fly-in calendar). Despite numerous previous requests to your office for the "log-in" access, I was eventually informed that this is no longer required and that the website is "open". Why is it then that the Aero Club minutes section under "membership" still requires authorised access? Is it not somewhat strange that SAGPA members learn more about the recent SAGPA AGM on Microlight forums than via their own organisation?

Other than the 3rd party legal Liability offered by SAGPA (hardly worthwhile if one adds the utterly value-less R590 for the magazine and Aero Club membership), there seems pitifully little reason to remain a member?

Am I wrong?

Sincerely,

David Lehr

[Learjet]

Jetranger wrote: I think the 3rd Party Indemnity insurance is cheaper through SAGPA but not sure if it covers the fees.

It would appear not. 3rd Party Insurance is extra. factor in the R590 membership fee and is the insurance cost still competitive?

From SAGPA website:

SAGPA Membership
Includes Aero Club fees and Microflight Africa magazine R 590.00
3rd party Insurance R 500,000.00 cover R 480.00
3rd party Insurance R 1 000,000.00 cover R 720.00
3rd party Insurance R 2 000,000.00 cover R 1200.00

[Low Level]

SAGPA is currently pretty useless. The only benefit that I've received from them - after making a phone call to Johan - was the introduction to microlighters.

18 months ago, I was a total ignoramus regarding anything that flies, and inbetween the fun, there is a wealth of information sharing on this site.

We therefore must get gyro pilots introduced and active on this forum. I'm pretty sure it can do for gyronauts, what SAGPA can't.

[Tinkerbell]

I have paid for the third party insurance through SAGPA but am worried that if ever I do need it (hopefully not) it will be worth nothing. I have never received any written confirmation of this. I asked the SAGPA secretary about this months ago and was promised that I would receive something the following week. I still haven't. I am a bit concerned and wonder if it isn't time for a more committed representative board.

[Learjet]

Tinkerbell wrote: I asked the SAGPA secretary about this months ago and was promised that I would receive something the following week. I still haven't.

mmm sounds familiar I'm afraid...

Ditto her email on the 29th August about the magazines :

Elmarie Vermeulen, SAGPA Secretary, wrote: I've had some enquiries from members about their magazines not getting to them.
The purpose of this e-mail is to ask all the members to please send me a reply on this mail to confirm their contact details. Send me your postal address as well as contact numbers. I will make sure the information in our database is correct and pass this on to the distributors of the magazine.

So I did.... and....?

Tick....Tock....Tick...Tock....Tick...Tock... ... .... .... .... Nearly 3 months later ... and still no sign of any magazine The situation is PATHETIC.

Has anyone received a copy of the magazine this year?????

[Tumbleweed]

I can't understand why the various associations don't make use of this forum to be more interactive with members.

Place the facts on a sticky, topics for comment and have the members and friends contribute and add value intead of the percieved 'freeloading'.

[Rotor-Blade]

Dont you find it amazing that even when there is concern for the lack of SAGPA input and the unhappiness that is shown by the SAGPA members, that ZU-DOT, still does not even try to give an explination or try and rally some support for the assositation. DOES THIS ALREADY NOT SAY ENOUGH WHY THIS ASSOSIATION IS IN TURMOIL. . I too did not receive my SAGPA badge or cap when I. joined After phoning Johan, I was told it would cost me additional money. SO WHY is it stipulated on the website that this is part of the joining fee. Just another bad taste left in my mouth. As for the website, it is as useful as a seized Rotor-Hub.

[Learjet]

You will also receive a SAGPA cap and flightsuit badge

errrr not!

[Learjet]

Well, well, well ... I received a phone call this morning from Trixie, the publisher /editor of African Skies. She was somewhat defensive and went to great lengths to explain all the reasons and excuses as to why we are in October and only 2 mags have been published so far this year (e..g SAGPA & others not supplying "their reports") and why people like myself haven't received them. (apparently many Post Office employees have become very interested in microlighting ).

But, I do appreciate the fact that she took the trouble to respond and phone me. (more than I've had from SAGPA) That said, I'm somewhat sceptical of her undertaking that "all 6 issues will be published this year" - this means another 4 issues in the next 10 weeks! From a (quality) content / editorail point of view I think that's a very big ask for any magazine editor....

But, the proof will be in the pudding... I'll be watching my postbox.

If anyone hasn't received their magazines this year I would suggest calling Trixie directly 083-9609268.

Okey dokey.... thats one of the issues (hopefully) addressed... now for SAGPA...

[afskies scribe]

Ok, Learjet, let's get the facts straight. It was a courtesy call to verify your postal address for reposting. Defensive? I'd say emphatic. Great lengths? Yes, to counteract misinterpretation of what I was saying.
I've addressed specific areas and adjusted methodologies to get the frequency back on track, with the help and cooperation of all the aviation sections represented in the mag. Watch this space!
If anyone has still not received their copies of the mag, please contact me so that I can sort it out.
If anyone wants to submit content by way of news, views or articles, please email them to me.
BTW samples of new SAGPA wings badge designs have been made up for consideration and approval, so things are happening. :D
Trixie
083 960 9268
editor@afskies.co.za

[Learjet]

Nuff said I think. We look forward to the mag(s)...