Ela vs Magni Gyro

[Yoda]

Its not that I wont take off in x-wind conditions. Only when the wind is blowing like it is today a 90 degree crosswind makes the landing a lot more risky than normal and I dont like that. As you probably have heard that you can easily get a dynamic role-over if you dont land straight. Thats because of the energy in the rotors that can pull you over when you tilt to one side. This is probably also why a lot of gyros do in fact roll over. Its usually pilot error. I suppose one need to gradually build up experience in x-wind conditions in a gyro.... otherwise it might bite you.
Still... no reason to be scared ... its just a matter of experience....
What do you say t-bird?

[t-bird]

“What would the "stall" equiv be on a gyro, I know it doesn't actually stall but the minimum airspeed needed before you drop?”

From about 20-25 mph downwards. You can take your airspeed to zero
The drop as you called it is a vertical descent.
Full rudder and “aileron” control the whole time.

The wing drop of a stall in a Gyro.
Close the power to idle and pull back on the stick if she wants to descent.
When she enters into a hover zero ground speed the nose will break off to the right.
The reason for this is that the rudder is quite a way to the right to compensate for the prop wash.
It is also possible to continue turning on the vertical axis. Just keep the gyro upright with the stick.

Not something that you will do if a fixed wing drop her wing.

Landing/take off in a crosswind is much easier than in a fixed wing only one problem.
YOU HAVE TO LAND STRAIGHT.

[Brian Young]

In my opinion gyros are over priced, over rated and have a very high accedent ratio and not pleasant to fly on long distance, when the dencity altitude is hight the performance figures fly out the window.
yoda when the wind is blowing the aeries on the ground are owned by lowtime pilots, fly a Kitfox 7 in anything from 0 to 40knts of wind land and take off on strips of 200mts try that in a gyro and you will hit the fence at the end of the runway ask some very experenced gyro instructors.

[Learjet]

Brian postulated...

In my opinion gyros are over priced

Only the good ones :D

over rated

By who? With all the ignorance and lack of knowledge about gyros being so prevalent out there one would expect the converse to hold true.

have a very high accedent(sic) ratio

Yep, of course this has nothing to do with all the "Popular Mechanics magazine in one hand and a beer in the other" Yanks who build them in their backyards before trying to (quite legaly!) fly them without a minute's instruction and training. "Y'all hold my beer and watch this..."

not pleasant to fly on long distance

Got to agree with you there Brian... British Airways Upper Class long-haul on a 747 sure is hard to beat! :D

when the dencity(sic) altitude is hight the performance figures fly out the window

You mean like all other aircraft? Excepting fighter jocks who clearly enjoy the benefits of altitude when they start to feel the "need for speed!"

when the wind is blowing the aeries on the ground are owned by lowtime pilots, fly a Kitfox 7 in anything from 0 to 40knts of wind land and take off on strips of 200mts try that in a gyro and you will hit the fence at the end of the runway ask some very experenced gyro instructors

Ja, well no fine...what's that saying about old pilots and bold pilots...?

[John Young]

have a very high accident ratio

Yep, of course this has nothing to do with all the "Popular Mechanics magazine in one hand and a beer in the other" Yanks who build them in their backyards before trying to (quite legaly!) fly them without a minute's instruction and training. "Y'all hold my beer and watch this..."

Hi Learjet,

I think Brian is referring to local prangs and “oopsies”.

Regards
John ZU-CIB

[Bennie Vorster]

Is there any RAF 2000 flyers on the forum, I'm very interested due to the closed cockpit, side by side seating and the afordeble price you can pick them up for.

[Learjet]

I think Brian is referring to local prangs and “oopsies”.

Sorry John, I must have misinterpreted his specific accident stats as a sweeping generalisation...

[Yoda]

yoda when the wind is blowing the aeries on the ground are owned by lowtime pilots, fly a Kitfox 7 in anything from 0 to 40knts of wind land and take off on strips of 200mts try that in a gyro and you will hit the fence at the end of the runway ask some very experenced gyro instructors.[/quote]

Hello Brian , I did not mean the other aeries cannot handle the wind... I want to state that gyros seems to handle strong wind with ease. So please again.. I only want to demonstrate the ability of the gyro not critisize other aeries. In the end its all flying.

As for the statement of a gyro not being able to get airborn within 200m in a 40kt wind.... I doubt if that is true..... maybe if you try to take of down wind. Can you plse be more specific as to what happened on that specific incident....

[Low Level]

Learjet -

Brian Young -

overpriced

Previously there was a similar remark regarding the price of gyros and it was mentioned that the RAF sells for $35 500.

My answer is one word - ROTAX.

Microlight planes sell for much less because of a R 70 000 powerplant including a prop vs gyro's R 250 000 motor and prop. Not sure of the price on a rotor, but heard of prices in the region of R 50 000.

RAF flies with rebuilt Subaru engines pricing in the region of R 70 000 - therefore they can afford to sell planes for R 180 000 less than other manufacturers.

The local built Teddy (Cub replica) cost R 100 000 more than it's competition, Guess you already know why - 912S powerplant.

Gyros expensive - yes. Overpriced - NO.

Are Porsche overpriced or expensive. If the answer is overpriced, my guess is you haven't drove one yourself.

Gyros are like Porsches. Overrated and high incident ratio - only if you don't stick to the rules - like all other flying machines, motorbikes, boats....

[Brian Young]

Yah Yah Guys,
The truth realy hurts and this gets you guys realy going. I have seen for my self that the specs quoted for most local gyros are badly over stateded, yes you could proberly get airborn after 100mts but you will have to stay 2 ft off the ground for the next 400mts before you could climb any higher. accedent ratio is for South Africa not the USA number of gyros flying to number of accedents per year, talking of all accedents reported and not reported.
I surpose for those that only fly gyros, gyros are the next best thing to bubble gum. (there are other flying machines)
As far as long distance I am talking of 4 hr streches not your 2hr refuel stops (Rotor shake)
Rotax motors are not the same price all over the world try the USA prices
Whats wrong with a Subaru motor, more horse, less maintanance, more reliable, good price, good back up etc etc.
I still feel gyros are very over priced and over rated and dont compare a luxury sports car to a plain gyro you are on the wrong planet but no probs
have another beer.

[Bennie Vorster]

I would really like to know what the profit margins is on the different Gyros. I just think that the cheaper the market is for a product the bigger market share for that product become. Maybe there is just not enough competition in the market place for gyros.

Exactly the problem with Rotex motors. Show me what money is spend fabricating one of these 912 Lawnmower motors and then give me a breakdown of how you get to sell that same motor for around R135 000 K

There is truck motors that cost four times the money to build and still does not sell for the same amount or profit margin. No, I think it is all about to little competition and having the monopoly in the market place.

It is time that some maid in China product come along with same or better quality and flood the market to such an extend that prices are forced down by at leased 50%.

I'm fad up with not been able to afford a decant aviation motor. It should be a basic right


You can see I'm born and bred South African can't you?

We can always speak to our unions or organize a march and a toy - toy in front of the Rotex head quarters on the 24th of next month. Who knows maybe we might get it as a national holiday in future.

[Brian Young]

Hay guys,
How come no gyros at CC fly in, the compo he had would have given yous
a great oppertunity to show what a gyro can actualy do? the Eurofox 912s (440K) tookoff in about 10mts. Hope to see some of you there next year and then may beee we could verify some of those specs.
Ldel just for the record I have in the past owned two Porsches a Corvette and a Cobra :D

[Yoda]

[quote="Brian Young"]Yah Yah Guys,
The truth realy hurts and this gets you guys realy going. I have seen for my self that the specs quoted for most local gyros are badly over stateded, yes you could proberly get airborn after 100mts but you will have to stay 2 ft off the ground for the next 400mts before you could climb any higher. accedent ratio is for South Africa not the USA number of gyros flying to number of accedents per year, talking of all accedents reported and not reported.
I surpose for those that only fly gyros, gyros are the next best thing to bubble gum. (there are other flying machines)
As far as long distance I am talking of 4 hr streches not your 2hr refuel stops (Rotor shake)

:D Brian..... you have a few serious misconceptions of gyros.
First of all... your best gyros available today have euro based prices. A magni will set you back 50 000 euro. Now if the Rand drops only R1 against the Euro you are talking R50 000. Ldel is spot on with his answer about pricing.
As for the performance..... I dont know what kind of gyro you flew. You are way off. Plse do yourself a favour and go fly in one of the more modern gyros available. Obviously you hanvnt done that.
I do agree with you on the accident cenario.
Its got nothing to do with gyros. Its usually pilot error because of low time pilots. Because gyros are so stable in windy conditions I think a lot of guys who does not have enough experience get into trouble on cross wind landings.
As t-bird stated before. You need to land straight!!!!!
Long distance flights are a pleasure in a gyro. You get to fly low and slow and enjoy the scenery. Most Gyros have a 3 to 4 hour endurance and you usually land because you have to pee (stick shake) not because of rotor shake :D

[mak]

Brian

It seems like you have seen a gyro before, but have you actually flow one?
By the way, I think Ldel sold his Porsche after he bought his gyro and the Porsche couldnt give him the same thrill anymore. Maybe Ldel can comment on this, I am only speculating. Ldel, is that why you stopped racing the Porsche?
Almost all the accidents in SA happens on the ground with pilots taxiing too fast, rotors not against the strong wind, etc, etc. Nothing to do with gyros.
Brian, what is the take off speed of the Eurofox that you refer to? Must be a nice acceleration over 10m to get to 40-50Mph or did the pilot take off behind the power curve.

[Brian Young]

As said before if you only fly gyros that all you know. The eurofox take off was seen by a few hundered poeple at CC fly in but we did not see any gyros? It seem to me that a lot of the poeple on this forum are either wanabe , student or lowtime pilots, I have been flying for 27 years have a current PPL, MPL "A" grade Instructors rating and a GPL rated on three different gyros, PPL and MPL +/_ 60 type ratings with +/_ 10000 hrs
So when you have a few hundered hrs we can talk again
Keep you blood presure down, life is a journey enjoy the flight.