Xenon

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gyropilot
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 12 July - new drama

Postby gyropilot » Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:16 pm

greg vos wrote:
gyropilot wrote:
so what will it take now to rip the mast off? /

Im using a small socket set and an allen key :lol: :lol:
:roll: :roll:

You see Gyro you are a low time pilot and you are still prepared to learn, remember accidents are only reserved for the high time pilots with hundreds of hours of experience...haven't you heard that on the safty forums ?? he was such a good Pilot, he had so much experience...same goes for swinging spanners.
Im still learning the tech side of things thank goodness i had a meccano set when i was a kid, and that i along the way learnt a thing or two about Volts and amps vhpy
I don't know so much :twisted: - you almost took the wind sock with us once :lol:

The real danger here is the older high time spanner throwers who are not prepared to learn or are simply too clued up to learn. What is that saying :?: ...cant teach an old dog new tricks **
it's been an eye opener that's for sure - really thought the aviation guys were much more disciplined with their builds & safety! after all you're playing with other peoples lives here - if I ever buy a gyro - I'll strip it down too it's last nut & bolt and do a full rebuild myself!
Last edited by gyropilot on Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 12 July - new drama

Postby jtresfon » Thu Jul 14, 2016 10:22 am

Greg you are a contentious individual, not shy to voice your opinions and you certainly know how to get people's knickers in a knot! Having said all of that, this has to be one of the most interesting gyro forum threads I have ever read. I know your predilection for attaining an anal retentive level of perfectionism and following your teardown of RDY has been both educational and entertaining. I think it contributes to the safety of the gyro community as a whole and I do hope that you can keep the thread going with any politics kept to a minimum. I would also hope that the local agents for these machines can see past any real or imagined insult to their brand and use the information to grow and strengthen both their reputation and their product to the level we all aspire to. Well done boet!

Jean.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 12 July - new drama

Postby Vertical Tango » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:23 am

Adding to Jean's post, it is a lesson to ALL makes of gyros represented in SA. We are discussing the Xenon here as it is the example machine in the exercise. This is NOT an opportunity for other agents to smile and think that they are not in the spot light. All machines have their weaknesses and cracks have appeared on all of them probably at different places. Let's just change the attitude and use this forum as a good learning curve in gyro safety.
Thanks Greg.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 12 July - new drama

Postby greg vos » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:26 pm

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Last edited by greg vos on Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 12 July - new drama

Postby greg vos » Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:42 pm

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Last edited by greg vos on Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby Vertical Tango » Sun Jul 17, 2016 6:57 pm

Hi Greg,
I am very interested in what you are going to do re locking wire in the above pic. I spent a long time in judging the risk of that bolt coming lose. And if it does come lose, it would then be easy for the safety wire, regardless how it is passed through various holes, to retain the bolt to unscrew more. In the end I have not come up with any better solution, considering the facts that the bolt is very long (many threads), it is also held with light locktite. It has to turn and follow the tube, therefore if the other end is attached to the fiberglass body and not the tube itself, that big loop becomes a necessity, and I cannot see it ever coming off.
But if you come up with anything better, I'll be glad to modify mine.

Sorry, I had a bit of unexpected trip outside JHB and I just came back. I have to go soon to the hangar and I'll make pics of the hill plate.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby greg vos » Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:23 pm

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Last edited by greg vos on Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby jtresfon » Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:26 pm

Hey Greg

For your interest some images in the link below of a brand new (4 week old) Zenon I saw while in France recently. Full carbon spec with clearcoat and looked pretty interesting.

http://avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=280&t=177288

Apologies for the Avcom link but the Microlighters Forum has a 100kb limit for any photo attachments and I could get the images to this size no matter how I tried...

Regards
Jean.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby greg vos » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:04 am

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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby Vertical Tango » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:10 pm

These are 2 pics about the heel plate, open and closed. You will probably make a neater job, but it is serving its purpose, i.e. to have the 2 heels at the same level and at the same time storage for books, and various tools. Obviously 2 units, pax and pilot.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6-Z_ ... UxPRi1EOXc
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6-Z_ ... UFqTHZGUlk

My inspection is due at the end of July and I will attend to the check list starting on Monday 25 July, removal of engine cowlings that will allow me to take better pic of the mast attachment.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby greg vos » Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:33 pm

[.
Last edited by greg vos on Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Xenon RST new pics 16 July - almost more drama

Postby greg vos » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:52 pm

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Re: Xenon RST read what i say on page 6!

Postby gyropilot » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:27 pm

so what was the "upgrade" then?

do you still have to check it every 100hrs even with the "upgrade"
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Re: Xenon RST read what i say on page 6!

Postby Vertical Tango » Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:18 pm

Hi Greg,

I think that Cellier is covering his back side with this bulletin. We must go back into the history of the Xenon. I went to France with 2 others to test the Xenon for the future SA agents. I met there very interesting people and kept contact with them. I also learned that Raphael Cellier is not the designer of the Xenon and in fact he cannot design much in aeronautics. He is very good at bragging and owes a lot of money in France. The normal course is to leave France and went to Poland to join Artur who was manufacturing anything in fiberglass for him. The original moulds are still in France and do not belong to Cellier. Many arguments developed between Xenon owners around the world (USA, SA ...) and Cellier. You can ask your American friend.
Coming back to the bracket in question and regardless what Cellier says. When I got my kit, it was far to be complete and I had to design many things lack of documentation, otherwise the R550,000 that I invested at the time in bits and pieces would be worth nothing until stuck together in the form of a flying gyro. I did not have any material to do those brackets and WENT TO THE LOCAL HARDWARE SHOP and bought ordinary aluminium angle line. Yes, my gyro has only 230 hrs, but those brackets (very weak I suppose) are still intact. Is this because ordinary alu is stronger to aircraft quality ? Or the bracket is mounted in such a way that it does not force incorrectly ? Or is it due to my prerotation method ? Maybe the day I sell my gyro, the new owner will break them in 2 hours, who knows ? Anyway, I do not have the intention of touching these brackets unless they show any stress, regardless how long they have been there. That part should not flex, therefore should not develop any fatigue.
Coming to the fuselage strength, I witnessed an accident of a Xenon who had blade flapping on take-off and cart-wheeled 4 times before resting outside the runway on its roof. It was terrific. The only injury the pilot had was, when everything was quiet, he undone his safety belt while hanging upside down and fell on his shoulder. I would rather be in a Xenon in that instance than any other gyro on the market. The body is very strong and yes, we pay the weight price. However, I accept totally what you say on imperfections and poor workmanship. This applies to machines like yours that were factory built. And we know that you are doing a perfectionist job to remedy to these weaknesses. Your gyro when finished will be worth well over 1 million. Keep the good work going.
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Re: Xenon RST read what i say on page 6!

Postby greg vos » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:30 am

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Last edited by greg vos on Mon Aug 29, 2016 10:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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