Gyro really the ultimate?

[whirly]

I have had three private messages, some here and some on AvCom, plus a call since I have expressed my interests in a Gyro on here lately!

Sounds like everybody is confused as to why I would want a gyro since I own a turbine helicopter! From the sound of it all gyro owners/pilots are in fact helicopter wannabees!

Is that true?

Whirly.

[lion]

Nope, I owned a new R44 and R22 and sold them to upgrade to a gyro!

[nicow]

Nope, I owned a new R44 and R22 and sold them to upgrade to a gyro!

[whirly]

Nope, I owned a new R44 and R22 and sold them to upgrade to a gyro!

Anything is an upgrade from a Robinson, even a trike (no disrespect to trike owners! )!

Whirly.

[FO Gyro]

For the average recreational flyer, who cannot afford helicopter flying, gyro's offer 90% of what a helicopter can do for 10% of the price, which makes it really attractive.

To me gyro's are also a much more relaxed craft to fly as there is so much less to go wrong, and they are not nearly as complex. No swash plates, gearboxes, no collective, no tail rotors that can fail, they can't get vortex ring state, cannot experience loss of tail rotor effectiveness, cannot run out our rotor RPM (once airborne), cannot stall, cannot over pitch rotor etc. The also have a much kinder height velocity graph than helicopters that allows recovery in the event of an engine out at low height combined with a slow airspeed (see my attached graph: Green shaded area is the gyro's avoid area, compared to an average helicopter where the avoid area is much larger).

To be able to fly burning only 15-21 litres of Mogas an hour in this day and age of expensive energy costs is a big plus as well. No I wouldn't say gyro's are the ultimate, I'm sure flying a turbine helicopter would be that, but it comes at a great cost, that unless you are seriously loaded, just doesn't make sense when flying for fun.

[whirly]

FO Gyro,

Thank you! You are spot on why I also want to change to gyro flying.

I fly way too little to afford (justify) my helicopter, only did 12 hours the past year. My ATF was only R5 607.66 (VAT inclusive) and that included the lady going to CAA to renew plus the CAA fees, but as my insurance is R45 000 per year, it cost me R3 750 per hour flown to insure it! I don't even insure it for near its true value as fortunately I sit with many spare components(engines, blades, tail rotor blades, gearboxes, clutches etc. etc), tailbooms, frames and what have you.

Fuel is my biggest direct expense but at least I can carry five people, so it is not too expensive per seat, if one wants to get technical. Speed in the chopper is slower than some of these newer gyros and fuel burn will only be a pleasure.

I have also never bought any aeroplane or helicopter brand new (can not afford it!), I can do that with a gyro and also spec it to my liking. Has to be such a thrill!

When I retire in a few years time it will only be my wife and I and time will be our own. I would want to visit places like Cape Town, PE, and most places with a reasonable runway, all from our home base which will be Mossel Bay. With a two blade system I can rent some hangar space and won't need my own hangar.

We could even visit Jhb and plan a slow trip stopping and sleeping over along the way, a new gyro should be very reliable and with fewer things that could go wrong/break. Like you said, a bit more relaxed flying.

It would have to be a side by side enclosed machine with a bit of baggage space, so I am looking!

Whirly.

[jtresfon]

Hey Whirly my brother is a recreational helicopter pilot flying only in the Cape Town area.

He did his license in 2005 at Base 4 Aviation at a cost of R120k. Including training hours he has flown a total of 130hrs while renting R44's from Base 4 at just under R4k per hour wet rate. Assuming 50hrs to get the license this means he has spent a further R320k on flying hours alone. Total spend = R440k for 130hrs, and owns no aircraft. His flying must be booked a week or more in advance and many times a heli is just not available. He has now let his license lapse as it is just getting too expensive and he cannot relax and just fly without thinking about budgets and finances.

I did my gyro license in 2010 at a cost of R40k. I subsequently bought a gyro 2nd hand and have now flown 450hrs at total running cost (including fuel, servicing, hangarage, ground insurance and all renewals etc.) of R650 per hour. To compare apples with apples I spent R300k for 450hrs. I bought a 2nd hand gyro and could sell it now for more than I paid for it. I have the convenience of not having to book and being able to fly whenever I wish.

Add in the safety factors mentioned by FO Gyro, the ease of operation and the affordability of these awesome little machines and it becomes an obvious decision.

No contest really.

Rgds
Jean.

[whirly]

Jean,

I was sold a year or three ago already!

But believe it or not, I have never flown in one.

Whirly.

[Yoda]

Whirly, thanks, interesting thread....
My 2sents worth after coming full circle.... I flew gyros for several years and decided its time to "upgrade". I went through the whole painful and expensive process of obtaining a helicopter license, owned a chopper for a few years and got right back to flying a gyro.. The main reason for me being safety

There will be days when you miss your chopper for sure, but for at least 90% of the time, the gyro will do it for you especially if you do recreational flying
You will be able to fly alone and not worry about burning a drum of fuel just to go around the block etc.

The flying experience of a gyro compared to chopper differs quite a bit... The gyro performance feels "pap" and its "heavy on controls" compared to a chopper. You will know it when you have a 90 kg pax on board with full tanks. No doubt the gyro can handle it, but you will know it...

Cruise speeds: On average I would say you can bargain on 80mph. Gyros are slow compared to choppers.... I know some of the newer models claims better, but I wont count on it...
You are used to a lot of power, but don't expect that from a gyro....

Advantages of a gyro compared to a chopper...
There is much less that can go wrong in a gyro.... I think its safe to say a gyro is safer than a chopper.
You can service the machine yourself and don't need to worry about an AMO doing scrappy work.

I think ideally it would be very nice to have both, but I suppose that's not affordable in most cases.

To answer the question RE whether a gyro is the ultimate.... I would say it comes rather close.....but... How is that saying again... to fly is heavenly but to hover is divine ...

[mak]

Jean,

I was sold a year or three ago already!

But believe it or not, I have never flown in one.

Whirly.

Whirly, my offer of about three years ago still stand.

[lion]

Nope, I owned a new R44 and R22 and sold them to upgrade to a gyro!

Anything is an upgrade from a Robinson, even a trike (no disrespect to trike owners! )!

Whirly.

Ha ha! I enjoyed the 400 odd hours I did in the Robbies, but didn't get my turbine rating unfortunately. I mostly enjoyed the heli flying, but got tired of all the costs and that the helis are always trying to suck themselves up their own naughts! I know I know....its all in the training with vortex ring state etc etc.

I do miss the heli flying sometimes, but enjoy the stability and running cost of gyros. I am on my fourth Magni - my personal preference is the M22.

Cheers,

L.

[whirly]

Jean,

I was sold a year or three ago already!

But believe it or not, I have never flown in one.

Whirly.

Whirly, my offer of about three years ago still stand.

mak,

Thanks, I know and still appreciate it. Have kept your e-mail.

I would like to go and try all the enclosed ones available, Cavalon, Calidus, Xenon, M24 etc and then see what I think.

I thought a gyro would cruise at more than 80 mph as Yoda stated? With two up and lots of fuel I cruise at 84 kts in the chopper. My chopper has hydraulics and was thinking that a gyro might not be as light on the controls, so I expected that. Hopefully it's not too stiff and will put me off.

I assume one can spec them so that the pilot sits on the right?

Whirly.

[Low Level]

I would like to go and try all the enclosed ones available, Cavalon, Calidus, Xenon, M24 etc and then see what I think.

Enclosed is definately nice, BUT, you must definately give the open cockpit a go as well.....see next point also.

I thought a gyro would cruise at more than 80 mph as Yoda stated? With two up and lots of fuel I cruise at 84 kts in the chopper.

Gyro flying is not about getting there - it is about how you get there. On our cross country trips my tracks look like it was flown by a drunken pilot. The scenery and believe me - even the odours - keeps one so entertained, you do not want to fly at 84 knots.

I have the privilege of a good friend that flies choppers, and has spent a few hours - cross country as well as fun flying - in the front seat. The experience does not come close to gyro flying.

One must keep in mind that gyro is not purposely built for flying long distances from A to B. If that is your sole purpose, it is going to be frustrating. It is like riding an offroad motorcycle. It is not built to travel from Jhb to Cape town. It can easily do it, but one must plan, and enjoy the trip, along roads less travelled, and scenery not seen by many, then it is perfect for the job, and EVERY time you get on - or in - it is just

Lastly

My chopper has hydraulics and was thinking that a gyro might not be as light on the controls, so I expected that. Hopefully it's not too stiff and will put me off.

Don't think so. The slighter heavier controls give you the feeling that you are in control. You can manhandle a gyro, and they love it.

[whirly]

Low Level,

So right you are! My tracks in the chopper also look like yours, but when I go long distance (and choppers aren't really made for that either) I do so in a straight line and I like a bit of speed. I don't need to do 120 kts, but 77 or 70 kts are going to feel awfully slow. Fortunately those long distance trips won't be too often and mostly it will be fun flying and short trips.

Open cockpit is not for me, besides, I suffer from a serious fear of heights and an open cockpit will scare the Malema out of me! Why would the experience in a gyro be different to a chopper when cruising around, once they are both flying then they pretty much look the same?

I go gagga when I look at the Cavalon, the Arrow Copter sure is nice and fast and very sexy looking but will be too expensive (I could live with the tandem seating if I could afford one though).

Whirly.

[Condor]

I think a visit to Kitty Hawk is now getting closer by the day.

If you make your plans correctly you can fly Xenon, Calidus, Cavalon and even some open cockpit Magni (just to proof the sensasion of fear of heights does not exist)

Contact us all when you can come and have breakfast...