SAGPA

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mak
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SAGPA

Postby mak » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:28 am

Scary Pilot suggested to me that we open a SAGPA related topic to open up communication between the committee and member, even though it can be done on the official SAGPA website, it might induce healthy discussion here.

Firstly I want to inform everyone of the new SAGPA fees. As there was no increase on 2013, the fees for 2014 will increase from R 250-00 to R 450-00. The R 450-00 will however include a R 50-00 donation in our accident / injury / trauma assist fund and another R 50-00 in an AP bursary scheme fund.
Herewith just a reminder that all SAGPA fees must be paid by February each year and not just before your ATF expire. A penalty will apply for payments after February.
The accident assist fund will not cover direct accident cost or medical expenses, that you need to sort out yourself, but rather extraordinary expenses not covered by your medical aid, but this will be reviewed on a case by case scenario.
One of SAGPA's big goals for this year is to set in motion or assist with the training of new AP's. We don't have the full plan in place yet, so we will welcome any suggestions and input. Very few training courses or organizations exist to help prospective AP's acquire the theoretical knowledge. We will also require your input / recommendations for suitable candidates for AP training.
A composite course presented by the Jonker sailplane organization as well as Comet Aviation's Rotax training course is accepted or will in the near future be accepted by Aeroclub. For the rest they suggested that we come up with a proposal, so please, any suggestions will be welcome.
If you know of someone knowledgeable in his field, obviously gyro related, that might have the time and are willing to assist in training / lectures, please forward their names to us.

If there are any other burning issues that you feel we need to attend to as SAGPA, please feel free to raise the issues here.

We still await the final approval from CAA for the required RAMP inspection list as proposed by SAGPA and the proposed call sign markings. We will post as soon as we receive a response from them.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby crazydoc » Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:33 pm

hi
ek is nuut in gyro wereld. wil net weet. moet ek aan sagpa behoort.? hoekom? met my ATF by raasa moes ek blykbaar net aansluit by aeroclub ,wat my alreeds iets soos 450 gekos het
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Re: SAGPA

Postby mak » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:38 pm

Crazydoc

Jy kan nie aan Aeroclub behoort as jy nie aan een van hulle sub-afdelings behoort nie.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby nicow » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:40 pm

crazydoc wrote:hi
ek is nuut in gyro wereld. wil net weet. moet ek aan sagpa behoort.? hoekom? met my ATF by raasa moes ek blykbaar net aansluit by aeroclub ,wat my alreeds iets soos 450 gekos het
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Jy moet aan 'n sub afdeling ook behoort om 'n ATF te kry...
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Re: SAGPA

Postby fransstrydom » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:29 pm

Baie welkom in die gyro wereld crazydoc.Hoop jy gaan nog baie vriende maak.Vertel ons waar kom jy vandaan,wat doen jy ensovoorts.Jy vra n baie geldige en pertinente vraag.Waarom sal jy aan n liggaam behoort as daar nie voordele vir jou is nie.Eerstens,ek vermoed jy is alreeds n lid van SAGPA,en as ek reg onthou sluit jou Earoclub fooie jou SAGPA ledegeld in.Om terug te kom na jou vraag,ek dink nie die antwoord behoort te wees "want jy moet nie".Baie werk word deur die SAGPA kommitee agter die skerms gedoen en dis ondankbare werk,maar die doel is om die gyro bedryf in ons land te bevoerder,die ledetal uit te brei,en ook om te sien dat lede van SAGPA sosiaal verkeer.Min mense is bewus daarvan dat die onlangse North meets South in n groot mate deur SAPA gereel en befonds is.Vra soos joune moet na vore kom,sodat die kommitee na die lede se behoeftes kan omsien.Selfs negatiewe kommentaar sal welkom wees in hierdie bespreking,sodat SAGPA weet wat die behoeftes van die lede is,en dienooreenkomstig kan optree.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby Tinkerbell » Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:46 pm

SAGPA is the representative body of all gyro pilots in SA and acts as a liaison between i.e. RAASA, Aero Club and the pilots. A committee member attends Aero Club board meetings, technical committee meetings etc. The alternative is not feasible: every pilot acts on his own and attends all of the above, fights CAA on ramp inspection requirements, AMO enforcements, etc. individually. SAGPA can be even more effective if all the gyro pilots work together. There is always power in numbers, so, please, add your voice and efforts to those of the committee rather than pulling the other way.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby FLYNOTE » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:36 pm

I endorse and support the work these guys are doing in the interest of us and our sport. Thanks for your dedication to advancing the gyro fraternity in SA guys. (^^) if we start listing the on going achievements of SAGPA since its inception which has been to our advantage at all times...we can only appreciate and salute you! ##
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Re: SAGPA

Postby Vertical Tango » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:12 pm

Here we go again. Out of 7 posts 5 are in Afrikaans. This is not a bashing session against afrikaans speaking people that I have the greatest respect for, but those gyro pilots who refuse to post in english do speak english correctly as they would not have obtained their license otherwise.
Tinkerbell states that "SAGPA is the representative body of all gyro pilots in SA". This is not correct. It represents only those who are members of SAGPA and it is not compulsory to be a member of SAGPA.
I for one am not a member of SAGPA. If you want to pull together numbers to be effective, I suggest that you start with some communication discipline in such a way that ALL gyro pilots understand and participate in your forum.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby Tinkerbell » Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:57 am

[quote="Vertical Tango"Tinkerbell states that "SAGPA is the representative body of all gyro pilots in SA". This is not correct. It represents only those who are members of SAGPA and it is not compulsory to be a member of SAGPA.
I for one am not a member of SAGPA. If you want to pull together numbers to be effective, I suggest that you start with some communication discipline in such a way that ALL gyro pilots understand and participate in your forum.[/quote]

Wrong. It is like thinking you don't need a TV license because you only watch Dstv and what do you get for the money anyway. It is compulsory whether you built your own gyro or do not own a gyro at all. But, hey, if you have been getting away with it...
Last edited by Tinkerbell on Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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fransstrydom
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Re: SAGPA

Postby fransstrydom » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:15 am

My apologies to Vertical Tango.Not wanting to start a argument here,i can merely try and explain the postings in Afrikaans.a Question was directed at SAGPA by a new member,and not accustomed to the protocol posted his question in Afrikaans.Being reasonably well mannered i responded in Afrikaans.Your objection is noted,and exactly the sort of inputs to add to this topic.It would be interesting to detemine how many viewers do not or are not able to converse in Afrikaans.
I also want to make it clear that i am not a committee member of SAGPA and my involvement in this matter is purely because of the way that CAA manages light sport avaition.This topic has been discussed ad nausium on this forum,but complaining as individuals is not conducive to changing the ways of CAA.We have to get our message across by using a legal and representative body.
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Vertical Tango
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Re: SAGPA

Postby Vertical Tango » Thu Oct 17, 2013 10:29 am

Wrong. It is like thinking you don't need a TV license because you only watch Dstv and what do you get for the money anyway. It is compulsory whether you built your own gyro or do not own a gyro at all. But, hey, if you have been getting away with it...
Tinkerbell, I suggest that you make a call to the Aeroclub and the CAA and learn about the rules governing the various affiliations. Unfortunately the gyro community tends to behave in a bubble thinking that there is nothing else but gyros. By removing blinkers, you would be surprised that there is a wonderful world of aviation out there, people that have gone through a lot of progress in their various affiliation, so much that the gyro community could learn from, starting with respect of eachother whatever you fly.
Today's rule state that you have to belong to the Aeroclub AND ONE affiliation. It might change tomorrow, but that is the rule today. Don't worry, SAGPA will not suffer from this conversation. You will not lose more members because they did not realise this. I am the odd one here. What could I do ? After being insulted so many times, I had to move on and do not regret a minute to have done so. The day I see that SAGPA gets its act together and stops with its "groupies" business, I will not hesitate to come back and bring my positive share.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby gyrosa » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:20 am

Hello Vertical Tango. The wording of one affiliation is maybe so and it might cause arguments, HOWEVER, when your aircraft is inspected by an AP, and something goes wrong (due to own or AP negligence), your claim on insurance with the Aero Club will NOT be entertained if you flew ie a microlight and joined ie the parachute section only. The AP AND you have to belong to the same section and that section must be the one in which your aircraft falls.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby Vertical Tango » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:56 pm

Hi Eric,
The AP AND you have to belong to the same section and that section must be the one in which your aircraft falls.
Not a problem, I have got that covered.

Regards.

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Re: SAGPA

Postby Condor » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:47 pm

First I thought here we go again not to gain any new info on this subject, but I felt like adding my 2c worth.

1. During my term as Vice Chair of Sagpa we were pressurised (and helped a lot) by RAASA to register as a ARO( Aviation Recreational Organisation) and I was instrumental to prepare the MOP (Manual of Procedure) to achieve this status.
Why did we do this? To be recognised in the Aviation Circles as a representative body and RAASA made it clear that all subsection will have to go this route.
I quote Mr Neil de Lange who stressed on several occasions that RAASA was in the process to refuse any ATF's if the owner was not a member OF THE APPLICABLE SECTION.
This is largely in place, but refer to point 2. Your SAGPA membership is confirmed on each ATF request submitted.
The next step to follow is that your licence renewal will not be issued unless membership of the relevant section can be proved.

2. On of the biggest headaches experienced by RAASA is that for certain friends CAA still issue ATF's for not type certified planes. This is totally against the agreement between RAASA and CAA and BIG ROTHER play to their own rules and do what they want as section membership is not confirmed at CAA (it is of no concern to them). RAASA now loose control and cannot provide any accurate statistics on aircraft or owners.

Do I need to continue. VT this is why you can get away with not being a member of SAGPA. I was told this is investigated and reported at a high level. So enjoy while it last.....

3. VT, I challenge you to make yourself available for selection on the committee of SAGPA to came and resolve the issues
Quote: The day I see that SAGPA gets its act together and stops with its "groupies" business, I will not hesitate to come back and bring my positive share.

The SAGPA committee does a wonderful job within the limits of what they can achieve. I plead to all to get involved with a positive attitude and let us grow the fantastic sport of GYRO's.
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Re: SAGPA

Postby fransstrydom » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:38 am

Two topics of major importance were discussed during the last general meeting,namely the situation of the AMO's and the AP's,and the ramp inspection list.Sugesstions were made and accepted to try and revive the problem of no new AP's entering the market.Throwing money to the problem will not necessarily solve the problem.We have to try and determine why we landed in this sordid situation.
The second issue was that of the ramp inspection.The feeling i got is that we are trying to passify CAA by trying to prove that we can regulate ourselfs by providing a list of required items.This absurdity results in us carrying things on board not because we may need it in an emergency,but to conform to CAA.We must rethink.
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