NORTH / SOUTH 2013

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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby MPL Pilot » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:37 pm

Personaly I will not pay R3750 pp to stay four days anywhere.
To the pilots that can afford it, enjoy and have fun!

Compared to Gariep, we as a group slept for R125 pppn.
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Gyronaut » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:22 pm

Pierre, sadly this is true.

There are two of us so its R7 500.00 for 4 nights, plus 240 liters of fuel to get there and back = R3 060.
R11 000.00 for 4 nights = R2 750.00 per person per night... 5 star resort hotels cost less so I don't think so.
I'll be heading off to Carnarvon in stead this year - at a fraction of the cost.

Dis nou maar hoe dit is, jammer julle.
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby saraf » Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:15 pm

Net om dinge uit te klaar, sapga het ons genader om north meets south saam met die bundu te hou nie ons hulle nie.

So sagpa is welkom om die north meets south te hou by canarvon.

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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Learjet » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:36 pm

Hi Eben, the Kalahari Bundu Bash has been on my "must do" list for a long time and I'm looking forward to it (I'll register this week).
Just a suggestion to avoid a repeat of canceling the KBB as has happened in the past may be to look at keeping costs to a minimum in order to make it as affordable as possible for those wishing to go. (remembering that the fuel price is klapping everyone badly at the moment too) For example...
The clothes, caps and badges etc which are part of the price amounts for nearly R800. This is more than 20% of the entry cost! Why not just have these for sale for those that want them and bring down the entry cost by nearly a thousand Rand?
Secondly, do we really need to be "treated to 5-Star catering like you have never seen before" ? Ja swaer, I'm not talking about surviving on rat-packs for 5 days - but 5-star catering obviously has a big impact on the costs and I'm sure there are many people who would love to be able to afford to attend this lekker event and be happy with a dop and a chop! :-)
I'd really like to see this event happen and not be cancelled like has happened in the past and to achieve this and get the entries I think you may just need to keep it to the essentials and make it as affordable as possible for everyone.
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby mak » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:05 am

I agree with what Dave is saying. Can you also look at options for people that can't do the whole five day thing, but perhaps only for two nights, the Friday and Saturday night on the pan.
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby saraf » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:36 pm

Hi dave and Mak,

I hear you and have spoken to Yolande, we are going to look at the options of taking away the shirts, tops and hats.

We will not be able to sell the stuff on the pan as we will not know the quantities and i can not sit with 50 or a 100 tops and t shirts branded 2013 bundu bash.

We can unfortunatly not only make arrangements for people that come for 2 days on the pan only. We need to prepare the infrastructure on the pan and this is the same cost if there is 10 people or 20.

Guys i understand and are trying to cut costs for you all as much as i can, we were able to cut costs from R 5000 pp to R3750pp. The bundu is not a flyinn where a town has all the infrastructure. Believe me we are doing all we can to give you all the best at the cheapest price possible.

If you attend the first year next year you will pay that money with a smile...........

Dave you wil save R425 if we do not include the tops, badges and tshirts.
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby mak » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:52 pm

Eben

I understand the fixed cost for the facilities at the pan, but there are a lot of breakfasts, lunches, dinners and transport before and after the actual pan accommodation. Can these be removed from the cost for people flying direct to the pan and back?
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Yolande » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:01 pm

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your email, input, and most of all support, this is much appreciated.

As Eben explained costs we have kept to a minimum, on the R3750.00 there is only R20.00 per person that we can play with should there be any unforeseen expenses. Since 2006 when the price was R2500.00p/p, the increase is 6% year on year, not bad with the food, fuel prices that has increased much more over the last 7 years.

I just also want to clairfy something: KBB has received no funding or sponsors, and need to pay for everyting out of the entry fee.

With regards to the Caps, Badges, Fleece & Golfer, we need funds to be able to order these items, and if it is paid for and included in the entry fee then we know for how many we received funds and how many we can order. The price on the website is if you want to order any extra items and is set at market related retail price, the cost price of these items have been worked into the Entry Fee with no increase added to it. We have kept it to the essentials only. Remember it is human nature to want to see what you have paid for and want to take something with, whether big or small, food and infrastructure you cannot show or take with you, but a cap, golfer, fleece and badge you can!

5 Star Catering can be defined in many ways, and when you are in the middle of nowhere with no water or electricity and you walk into a boma with chairs, tables, cutlery and a hot meal is served, this will be classified as 5 star in the Kalahari for anyone. The food is plain and simple, real Kalahari, but we cannot compromise on quality and quantity as the nearest shop is 250km from the pan, and trust me we have done this for 16 years, and people expect a boma with chairs, tables, cutlery and a hot meal. Not everyone want to have 13 meals with little variety.

Toilets and showers we need to arrange, 3 days, 3 nights in the Kalahari, this is essential to any type of event, big or small.

If you have never been on a Bundu, the price might put you off, but if you have been before, it is a steal for what you are getting!

Dave it is very difficult to explain to someone that has never been on the Bundu how it is and how it is going to be and the amount of work and planning that goes into an event like this one. This is not your normal fly-in, it is an event! You have to experience it to appreciate it and this year you will!!

I am really looking forward in receiving your entry!

Please see below list of everything the R3750.00 is made up off:

1 x KBB Golfer
1 x KBB Fleece
1 x KBB Cap
1 x KBB Badge
1 x KBB Sticker
5 x Dinners
4 x Breakfasts
4 x Lunches
4 x Koffie/Tea, Biscuits Fruit Daily at Koppieskraal Pan ( All day long)

Setup Goera Pan
Entry Fee Goera Pan
Brunch & Coldrinks & Water
Return Coldrinks & Water

KBB Marketing Fees
Website Re-design
Printing & Stationery

Set up the SAAF Hanger Upington
Marquees Tent, Setup & Removal
Cutlery Crockery, Tableware, Glassware
Lights
Electricity
Registration
Toilets SAAF Hanger & Cleaning of it

Other
Ground Crew Vehicle + Trailors + Drivers to Koppieskraal & Return
UTN Airport Landing Fees
200 x 25lt Empty Fuel Drums
Transport of Fuel to the different pans for refueling
KBB Staff for organizing
Mier Staff for catering & cleaning
Each will receive a Group Photo


Setup at Koppieskraal Pan
NOTE: We have to setup everything at Koppieskraal, this is a salt pan with nothing on, we need to create the entire infrastructure.

Entry Fees Koppieskraal
5 x Flush Toilets
5 x Warm Showers
Daily replenishment of Toiletpaper and cleaning of toilet and showers
Boma Tent for all meals
Tables, Chairs Cutlery
Wood
Donkey for Warm Water
PA System
Kitchen
10 000lt of Fresh Water
Cleaning of Koppieskraal Pan
Generators at Koppieskraal Pan
Fuel Bowser
Setup and running of Cash Bar
Tent for Cash Bar
Ice
Refuse Bins


Kind Regards

Yolandé Combrinck | Kalahari Bundu Bash
Tel: +27 54 331 3534 | Email Fax: 086 559 6881 | Mobile: +27 83 2828792
Hanger 3, Upington International Airport | PO Box 2071, Upington 8800
Skype: yolande.combrinck | MSN: yolande@webmail.co.za
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Yolande » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:09 pm

mak wrote:Eben

I understand the fixed cost for the facilities at the pan, but there are a lot of breakfasts, lunches, dinners and transport before and after the actual pan accommodation. Can these be removed from the cost for people flying direct to the pan and back?
Dear Mak,

There are two dinners included the night of 28 & 29 May and a light breakfast the morning of 30 May. The problem is that all will gather at the SAAF (South African Airforce Hanger) and we have to setup infrastructure there aswell. The briefing is the evening of 29 May for all at the SAAF Hanger whereafter dinner will follow.

The Augrabies Brunch and Sakkie Arkie is an add-on and you do not have to book this.

The Transport is just an extra that we offer as there will be people flying in and wanting to go to town or transfered to their guesthouse and return. This is not included in the entry fee. I have just posted a list of what the R3750.00 consist of in my reply to Dave, please have a look at it.

You will have to re-fuel in Upington and attend the Briefing before we fly out to the Pan.

Hope I was of some help!

Regards
Yolande
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Yolande » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:16 pm

mak wrote:I agree with what Dave is saying. Can you also look at options for people that can't do the whole five day thing, but perhaps only for two nights, the Friday and Saturday night on the pan.
Dear Mak,

We cannot have a seperate price for different amount of nights/days. Logistically it is going to be a nightmare. The Bundu Package is a packaged price and cannot be broken into days, then the price is going to be much more for 2 days than for 4 days.

Regards
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Learjet » Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:22 pm

Thanks for the feedabck Yolande & Eben
I do appreciate the significant logitics that goes into hosting this event and I'm really looking forward to it.
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Yolande » Mon Mar 11, 2013 3:35 pm

Gyronaut wrote:Pierre, sadly this is true.

There are two of us so its R7 500.00 for 4 nights, plus 240 liters of fuel to get there and back = R3 060.
R11 000.00 for 4 nights = R2 750.00 per person per night... 5 star resort hotels cost less so I don't think so.
I'll be heading off to Carnarvon in stead this year - at a fraction of the cost.

Dis nou maar hoe dit is, jammer julle.
Dear Gyronaut,

I just think we need to compare apples with apples and quote facts.

First of all your calculations does not match - R2750.00 per person per night = R5500.00 x 4 = R22 000.00, should of been R2750.00 for two per night = R1375.00 per person per night.

I happen to have access to all the current specials on lodges/resorts. NOW REMEMBER, these "resorts/lodges" you are talking about happen to have all the infrastructure, water, toilets, showers, electricity, dining room/boma's, crockery, cutlery, staff etc, and is based on a per person Sharing rate, single supplement is added at 50% so the single rate you need to take the per person rate + 50% of that rate to get the Single Supplement rate. You need to compare the Single Rate to the KBB entry fee.

RATES ARE ON SPECIAL AND NOT PUBLIC RACK RATES! You still need to add your fuel ontop of these prices!

*****
Wilderness Safaris
Namibia Summer Special Wilderness Safaris Classic Camps: Damaraland Camp, Ongava Lodge from R 1448 pppns. (Single Supplement R2172.00)
Wilderness Adventure Camps: Doro Nawas, Andersons Camp, Kulala Wilderness Camp from R 1141 pppns. (Single Supplement R1711.50)
Incl: DBB, park fees & bed levy.
Excl: Regional flts to & from WDH, road or air trsfs, lunch, drinks, laundry & activities

*****
Wilderness Safaris Premier Camps: Little Kulala Lodge from R 3428 pppns (Single R5142.00) / Little Ongava Lodge & Serra Cafema Camp from R 4563 pppns (Single R6844.50)
Incl: All meals, scheduled lodge activities, park fees & bed levy.
Excl: Regional flts to & from WDH, road or air trsfs, drinks & laundry.
Note: Applies to SA res only. SADC flying rates available on req. Valid 01 November 2012 – 14 June 2013. T&C apply

*****

Tshukudu Bush Lodge- Heart of the Pilanesberg: R3830 p/p sharing p/nt (Single R5745.00) (Validity until 31 December 2013)
Incl: Fully Inclusive * transfers between Bakubung and Tshukudu, accommodation, welcome drink on arrival, high tea, game drive, 6 course dinner, early morning tea/coffee, brunch and all local beverages.

*****
Simbavati River Lodge -
R2100pp p/nt sharing. (Single R3150.00) Vld 10 Jan - 15 Dec 2013. Incl: Accomm, all meals & safaris.
Only applicable to SADC Residents (Passport/ID will be checked) * Min 2nts stay * Subject to avail & limited rooms p/nt. Excl: Trnsf to/from local airports/other lodges * Timbavati conservation levy R170 p/p * Timbavati vehicle entrance fee R120 * Gratuities for safari guides & lodge staff * Excl public holidays/long w/ends.

*****
Itaga Luxury Private Game Lodge - 4 Star
All spcls incl: 3nts accomm., welcome drink on arrival, high tea each afternoon, 3-course candlelit dinner daily, full English breakfast daily, 2hr game drive each afternoon.
Midweek pkg: R3,885pps (Single R5827.50) / Weekend pkg: R4,785pps. (Single R7177.50)
Additional nts charged at R1,195ppspn (weekend) & R995ppspn (midweek).

*****

I am just a bit dissapointed in your comment making statements you cannot justify, all you could of said was" Thank you for promoting recreational flying, but this year I will have to skip as my budget does not allow for it, hopefully next time!" And wished us all the best.

Regards
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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby MPL Pilot » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:33 pm

Thank you for promoting recreational flying, but this year I will have to skip as my budget does not allow for it, hopefully next time!" And we wished us all the best. :lol:

Len, sien jou in Carnarvon, who is joining us?

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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby PieterKotze » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:26 pm

I am in for Carnavon, whether I could afford KBB or not. I am new to this so I dont really know how things work yet, having never been on a flyaway like this, but really did not take to the costs nor the agro, pushy explanations of the costs. We all can imagine the costs of shlepping heaps of food, water etc 250 km, but we are the clients or should I say propective clients, so comments like... " I am just a bit dissapointed in your comment making statements you cannot justify, all you could of said was" Thank you for promoting recreational flying, but this year I will have to skip as my budget does not allow for it, hopefully next time!" And wished us all the best..." does not win any friends nor influence people. My feeling is that this is a huge event and if it is to be a success need a little bit more circumspect approach other than being bashed by Eben and Yolande about how great it will be. Yolande's comment about sponsors etc is valid, but I dont see any further comments about it. How about 1 or 2 phone calls to SA Pilot or other forums, or Comet Supplies or AutoGyro, MagniSA, Zen1SA, ELA or Castrol or a fuel Co. If SA Pilot can commit to a serious article, and reading some of the crap they have found them in with comments before (I was a regular buyer and have not bought it for 6 months), I can assure you that they and the rest would be happy to pay for some sort of coverage, hell I use serious Mogas 95 every month, I will gladly put stickers etc all over my gyro if the advertiser will gooi in a R 10/20 grand or so or even maybe send a bowser for the 3 days!!! And I am sure all the other microlighters will do the same. If Koppiespan is what you guys are saying it is, the event can be a serious marketing event for 1 or more aviation suppliers. I dont know whether Rotax advertises at all being as dominant as they are, but can you imagine the coverage of 100 microlights with Rotax engines flying with Rotaxes in the bundus!!! Jeez we should all put Hilux engines in our planes, then this would be a sinch!!! But then again dont overlook the opportunity for Toyota (or any of the other also rans!) having a Hilux there with a bowser saying "....TOYOTA...ALWAYS LEADING THE WAY...!

Sorry guys about the rambling, but you know instead of bashing prospective takers or cutting R 250 per head and not getting a T-Shirt or having a meatball instead of a chop, why not rather look at this positively. Eben you guys are saying the event is dead if you dont get 100 subscriptions, so just think a R 10 000 sponser cuts the costs by R 100, R 20k, R 200, etc, so just R 50 - R 100k sponsors and the deal becomes much more of a go at below R 3 grand, hell guys will start killing each other for a spot! And then do the promotion thing, I mean if I would come, I would come alone, so say to me hey Pieter will you bring Athol Frantz for instance, or the marketing oke at Castrol, and I will say cool. And I am sure there are other guys that will do the same. Have we thought of approaching the CAA to sanction the event as a "Fly Safe" event and we bring a specialist to do a safety course or whatever and they provide some sponsorship?

Maybe I am being and absolute idiot, but I am Air Polution and although I am old and bald, I might not have the experience of my fellow aviators or might not have gained the crappy attitude regarding aviation in general that I notice a lot of the old bold pilots on this forum seemed to have acquired, so please shoot me down in flames and I will take it on the chin, but I really believe that with a bit of effort this event can become more than just the KBB, it can become a sought after event that you will need to book the day after to secure your place for next year.

Just some ideas.

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Re: NORTH / SOUTH 2013

Postby Baitbird » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:06 am

Let’s face it guys (and girls).
The KBB WILL be an event and not just a fly-in. As such it needs to be treated differently. You are paying for the whole experience.
I’m sure the aggressive marketing might be justified to ensure that the effort put in so-far by the Mocke’s does not go to waste.
Rest assured by the interest shown on Avcom and on other threads in Microlighters, I’m sure that the 100 target will be easily reached.

And whilst I can appreciate the work and logistics involved in putting up a REMOVABLE infra structure big enough to handle the numbers for a few days and provide some rustic luxury to the participants.

Having provided and run a number of safari’s into Africa, I can assure you that regardless off what people say beforehand. – They do expect value for their money AND MORE. Easy saying meatballs instead of a chop – until you get the meatball…… then they need gravy, salad, COLD beverage and, and and.

The KBB has over the years grown (and outgrown) from the original camp-on-the-pan-minimalistic-start that originally appealed to the aviators.

You go to the KBB because you WANT to. If you need to look at your budget, you might not enjoy the experience as much as you should.

Having said that – if budget is no option, it doesn’t mean you should now sommer throw your hard earned money away.

To compare Yolande’s apples with apples.

KBB – to my understanding provides the communal facilities.(ie – the ablutions and the “food-hall” with food and a “boma” area where you can socialize.
As well as an area where you may pitch your own tent and bed – provided by yourself. (correct me if I’m wrong)
And don’t forget the clothing.

All the comparative camps that was provided ARE real luxury. – En-suite bathrooms, Walk in facilities with beds & bedding/linen provided, down to emergency provisions for the bathrooms, as well as personalized service. AND most of them have at least one unique activity included – be that a game drive, a bird walk or what ever.
Yes they do have permanent structures and don’t need to remove them at the end of the weekend. – BUT DON’T COMPARE yourself to them to justify the price. That’s NOT apples with apples with apples.

Yolande – I wish you well with the venture.

If I may suggest don’t try and please everyone – You’re guaranteed to disappoint some people.
Rather establish who your target market / group is and provide THEM with the best value for money experience.

Them that are don’t mind paying are used to different basic’s, than them that are budget sensitive.
Rustic to me does not mean rustic to you…..

The KBB from year’s ago and the KBB now, is not the same thing.

I personally will not be there.
Reasons – To BIG numbers. To really experience the vast openness of a Kalahari-pan and the beauty of a dessert dawn – you don’t want 100+ strangers around. (selfish – I know)
Also – When I spend that kind of money (and yes the fuel-costs are part of the budget) I look for more experience than what the KBB can provide me.
And before any-one asks. I regularly goes camping. I can sit next to , and cook over an open fire. I have taken cold showers (or even bathed out of a bucket of cold water).
I have lived on Coffee-and-rusks and braaivleis-and-pap for a week – AND ENJOYED IT.

In general – providing an experience is much cheaper and easier than providing a facility.

Just my 2cents.
Good luck to all the participants. Enjoy the Kalahari and fly safe.
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