Registration letters on Gyros

[gyrosa]

Hi all,
There was a recent inspection by the SACAA and they found that our registration letters to be either too small or not conforming with the regulations.
The SACAA was then approached for dispensation on this issue as in certain cases there is no way we can comply. They refered me to Aero Club to approach them about the matter and make it a "blanket dispensation" ie for everyone.
Here are the results:-

Hi Eric

Had a amicable meeting with SACAA. The route we suggest is a group special approval.

From a safety point of view aircraft need to be identifiable. This is agreed.
In CAA opinion a fair amount of low flying and contravention of legislation takes place with use of gyros and thus registrations must be visible for SACAA to police this.
Any REG letter sizing less than 250mm is illegal and requires special approval which is suggested happens as a SAGPA initiative and as a matter of urgency.
Irrespective of DCA approval less than 150 mm will not be accepted by the CAA as it contravenes ICAO registration requirements.
Any AP signing off with Reg markings less than required in the legislation is also acting illegally.
It is also not possible to remove the ZU prefix as it is international regulation.

Concessions to be placed in a special approval application in the name of SAGPA to be forwarded to the DCA.

Concession under discussion and appears that it will be accpted by the SACAA:-

2x 150 mm lettering on the vertical stabs and then 300mm on belly of aircraft (a concession from 500mm on belly)

Once this is accepted, it will apply to all.
Best Regards
Eric

[PieterKotze]

So Oom Eric,

In plain language does this mean.....

1. In the vertical stabilizers you need your full reg ZU - ABC in letters no smaller than 150 mm or is it 250 mm???
2. On the belly of the Gyro the reg must be in letters no smaller than 300 mm?

My question is this, I am not an expert that read the CARS and CATS every day, so was the sizes always in the REGs for both the verticals and belly? If so, my aircraft was supplied by an officer of SACAA and pre-delivery checked and ATF cleared by a registered AMO, are they guilty of transgression of the Regs and how do I go about reporting this?

Pieter

[Steve_SP]

""It is also not possible to remove the ZU prefix as it is international regulation. ""

Somehow New Zealand has a concession - if you visit New Zealand you will notice that 80% of the aircraft at a GA airfield do not wear the national prefix "ZK" - they just wear the final three letters of the ZK registration.

example

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1351092/

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1350441/


I suspect it is due mainly to the fact that the islands are a long way from anywhere else and those GA aircraft are not likely to ( or even possible of ) flying to another country.

How many of the ZU registered aircraft in SA have any intention of operating outside of SA ?

[lion]

""It is also not possible to remove the ZU prefix as it is international regulation. ""

Somehow New Zealand has a concession - if you visit New Zealand you will notice that 80% of the aircraft at a GA airfield do not wear the national prefix "ZK" - they just wear the final three letters of the ZK registration.

example

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1351092/

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1350441/


I suspect it is due mainly to the fact that the islands are a long way from anywhere else and those GA aircraft are not likely to ( or even possible of ) flying to another country.

How many of the ZU registered aircraft in SA have any intention of operating outside of SA ?

Here is my gyro in NZ - the ZK is not required, however the minimum height of the letters is 150 mm and there is also a minimum width. A belly registration is also required with specific dimensions. I had to apply for a dispensation in the height of the letters as the 150 mm each still wouldn't fit on the tail. Minimum legal flying height is 500 ft agl at all times other than when taking off, landing or in designated low flying areas.

Cheers,

L.

[gyrosa]

Regarding the sizes of the letters. They have been prescribed in the CATS/CARS. Regarding the ZU to be left out the answer is the CAA says no. If you can fit 300mm letters on the horizontal stab, you will need special dispensation from the SACAA as they are prepared to give this allowance for the belly only. This also does not mean that Piet got special dispensation, that this dispensation goes through for all. We have managed this through Aero Club.
Guys PLEASE, we have this dispensation, DO NOT ABUSE IT. This whole thing was caused by certain stupid idiots that went low flying and chased game etc with their gyros. Now we all have to pay the price. Let us abide by the rules and be legal and safe at the same time.
Regards
Eric

[PieterKotze]

Sorry Eric,

Sitting in a Lodge in beautiful Omaruru, Namibia, so bear with me. My question still stands...are the agents responsible? So from my guy, to Butch, to Anthony, etc...we yes are the owners and the buck stops with us, but we are being lead by our noses by the very peops that bring gyros in, sell them to us at serious expense, and then we sit with the sh#t! I dont mind a huge greT reg no on my belly or my tail because i am not going to hit the 500 ft graveyard, but now i have to go and get myself stickered while my cheque was banked ages ago! I am seriously pi##sed!
I think it is time we owners stand up and ensure that our agents become responsible for their actions. I am definately taking this up with the CAA and the Principle in Poland. I am sick to death of sucking hind t#t, and being lumbered with the problems.

Pieter

[gyrosa]

Hi Pieter
I am not going to get embroiled on the responsiblity side of things. In the past almost 20 years, it was never an issue with the SACAA up till recently. I hear what you say, and I also know that most of this would not have happened if persons did not chase game etc with their gyros. For every action there is an opposite reaction, and this is the case to date. We would probably have got away with it IF all had played the game. Now we all suffer.
To the best of my knowledge, your registration is 240mm. This issue was brought up some years ago already and some owners changed to be within regulation.
As far as I know (and I stand corrected to this), it is the owner/operator's responsibility to ensure that the aircraft that they operate is airworthy (see conditions on ATF).

[gyrosa]

Hi Pieter
I am not going to get embroiled on the responsiblity side of things. To the best of my knowledge, your registration is 240mm. This issue was brought up some years ago already and some owners changed to be within regulation.
As far as I know (and I stand corrected to this), it is the owner/operator's responsibility to ensure that the aircraft that they operate is airworthy (see conditions on ATF).
I hear what you say, and I also know that most of this would not have happened if persons did not chase game etc with their gyros. For every action there is an opposite reaction, and this is the case to date. We would probably have got away with it IF all had played the game. Now we all suffer.

[gyrosa]

Hi Leo
How are you still keeping way "down under"? I understand why the Z is left off your registration. There is a hell of a lot of water between you and your next neighbour that has a different prefix to his registration. Hear we are in flying distance to any one of our neighbouring states with a different prefix to his registration.
Regards
Eric

[lion]

Hi Leo
How are you still keeping way "down under"? I understand why the Z is left off your registration. There is a hell of a lot of water between you and your next neighbour that has a different prefix to his registration. Hear we are in flying distance to any one of our neighbouring states with a different prefix to his registration.
Regards
Eric

Hey Eric!

Yup, quite correct.....we sure are far from everything here, so as you say, we don't need the ZK prefix as we cant go anywhere!

All good here, beautiful scenery...its like flying over Teletubby land!

Guys...enjoy the magnificent flying in SA, it is one of the best places in the world to fly with the vast spaces, game reserves and neighbouring countries.

Cheers,

L.

[Tinkerbell]

Hello Eric
Both our gyros letters' are 150mm. If we now add 300mm letters on the belly we should be ok?
Jx

[Gyronaut]

Tinkerbell, Eric,

As I understand it...

if you have a Mode C transponder, 150mm on your vertical stab is perfect, if not transponder equipped, you need 300mm lettering under your belly or horizontal stabilizer, (if you have one).

Is ek reg of verkeerd??

Len

[gyrosa]

Spoke to Kevin at Aero Club yesterday about this issue. Told me to wait until it is writing, however the CAA made the suggestions, so I guess it is a formality from here on for the commissioner to sign the approval. As I have it we agreed on the 150mm on the vertical stab and 300mm on the belly.
Regards
Eric