MOGAS & AVGAS ??

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JvTonder
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby JvTonder » Fri Jun 18, 2010 7:08 pm

Rudix wrote:
JvTonder wrote:I say stick to what the books tells you. I have a 912 and only fly 95 mogas, if I use avgas the TBO gets cut in half. You can use avgas or 93 in a pinch but don't make it a habit.
Not the TBO, that stays the same bu the service intervals become 50 hours and not 100 hours but I agree, for a 912 95 is the best option.

The Jabiru engines are fine on 95, according to the Jabiru engine manual RON 91 or above is fine.
Hi Rudi, agree the service intervals go down to every 50 hrs but could have sworn the TBO as well, will have to look at the manual again. We can discus this on Saterday at Rhino. ^ vhpy
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby Rudix » Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:04 pm

JvTonder wrote:
Rudix wrote:
JvTonder wrote:I say stick to what the books tells you. I have a 912 and only fly 95 mogas, if I use avgas the TBO gets cut in half. You can use avgas or 93 in a pinch but don't make it a habit.
Not the TBO, that stays the same bu the service intervals become 50 hours and not 100 hours but I agree, for a 912 95 is the best option.

The Jabiru engines are fine on 95, according to the Jabiru engine manual RON 91 or above is fine.
Hi Rudi, agree the service intervals go down to every 50 hrs but could have sworn the TBO as well, will have to look at the manual again. We can discus this on Saterday at Rhino. ^ vhpy
TBO stays the same, have checked vhpy

Will only be at Rhino later on Saturday, still out of town, flight are full with the WC in town :evil:

Have fun in the morning!
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby JvTonder » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:33 pm

Rotax Manuel states:

"AVGAS 100LL places greater stress on the valve seats due to its high lead content and forms increased deposits in the combustion chamber and lead sediments in the oil system. Thus it should only be used in case of problems with vapor lock or when other types of gasoline are unavailable."

I saw a gearbox after 800 hrs, it had to be redone completely, slipper clutch, bearings the lot. According to my AP if AVGAS is used this must be done every 1000hrs and the oil pump check as well. The oil that came out of the gearbox had a lot of lead sediments and it could be felt between your fingers.

So ones again stick to 95 for the 912 and 914 and 93 for the 582 ect.
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby Rudix » Mon Jun 21, 2010 6:42 pm

JvTonder wrote:Rotax Manuel states:

"AVGAS 100LL places greater stress on the valve seats due to its high lead content and forms increased deposits in the combustion chamber and lead sediments in the oil system. Thus it should only be used in case of problems with vapor lock or when other types of gasoline are unavailable."

I saw a gearbox after 800 hrs, it had to be redone completely, slipper clutch, bearings the lot. According to my AP if AVGAS is used this must be done every 1000hrs and the oil pump check as well. The oil that came out of the gearbox had a lot of lead sediments and it could be felt between your fingers.

So ones again stick to 95 for the 912 and 914 and 93 for the 582 ect.
Well, I am still not convinced... The reason you change the oil every 50 hours with AVGAS is to protect the engine from the "sludge", maybe the 800 hour gearbox owner did not stick to the 50 hour rule?

Personally I would rather believe Rotax than the local AP (sorry!!), Many Many strange stories heard from some "experts", often based on partial facts and some fiction :twisted: The official Rotax service schedule does not show ANY lower TBO, just the additional oil and plug changes. If you can feel the lead in the gearbox oil (remember on the 912 the engine/gearbox oil is shared) you have a real problem and I am SURE the oil was not changed every 50 hours!! Remember with AVGAS use you also need to flush/clean the oil reservoir on the 912/4.

It is important on the 912/4 to use the correct oil, the wrong oil will cause early failure of the slipper clutch and you should NEVER use full synthetic oil if you are EVER going to use AVGAS The Rotax manual is very specific about this (This is something some local AP's don't seem to know.... they should read the COMPLETE manual sometime :evil: ) Many guys say they will never use AVGAS, wait till they have to divert somewhere and need to fill up, at most airports you can only get AVGAS.

Having said the above, there are some real knowledgeable AP's out there, but just because he is an AP does not make him always right vhpy I learned the hard way, if I am not sure I do some research and/or get a second opinion.

Why 93 octane for the 582? 95 is a better option according to Rotax.... I don't own a 582 but have flown many hours behind one, only ever used 95, like I use 95 in my 618.

Anyway, to each his own, don't know why anyone would use AVGAS unless they have no other option.....

Fly safe,
Rudi
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby JvTonder » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:04 pm

Rudi,

If you read carefully in previous post you will see I agreed with the TBO, it stays the same, and if I didn't I do now. And as for the AP he got his info from Rotax, also they (Rotax SA) said it was something they started to notice when AVGAS is used so no SB out, yet. I also said that you can use Avgas or 93 in a pinch.

As for the other owner with the gearbox problem, I do not know if he serviced it every 50 hrs or not I only know what I saw and felt. Agree that the oil system must be flushed, as per Rotax you must do that at every 100hr service under normal conditions as well.
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby Rudix » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:22 pm

JvTonder wrote:Rudi,

If you read carefully in previous post you will see I agreed with the TBO, it stays the same, and if I didn't I do now. And as for the AP he got his info from Rotax, also they (Rotax SA) said it was something they started to notice when AVGAS is used so no SB out, yet. I also said that you can use Avgas or 93 in a pinch.

As for the other owner with the gearbox problem, I do not know if he serviced it every 50 hrs or not I only know what I saw and felt. Agree that the oil system must be flushed, as per Rotax you must do that at every 100hr service under normal conditions as well.
Ok, so we actually agree vhpy

As far as Rotax South Africa goes, when I see you next I will give you my personal opinion.........

Fly safe,
Rudi
PS, for a normal oil service the oil reservoir or system is not flushed....
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby JvTonder » Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:59 pm

It will not be this weekend as I am in Komatipoort, enjoy the flying and the weekend.
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby Rudix » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:21 pm

JvTonder wrote:It will not be this weekend as I am in Komatipoort, enjoy the flying and the weekend.
Enjoy the trip! Are you visiting the BB factory?

Regards,
Rudi
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic." ;)
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby hugo » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:56 pm

hey guys this should sort it out

http://www.electraflyer.com/trike.php
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Re: MOGAS & AVGAS ??

Postby JvTonder » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:50 am

Rudix wrote:
JvTonder wrote:It will not be this weekend as I am in Komatipoort, enjoy the flying and the weekend.
Enjoy the trip! Are you visiting the BB factory?

Regards,
Rudi

Ek gaan af vir die prawn fees, en sommer bietjie rus, en ja ek gaan by Stefan hulle 'n draai maak en ook 'n nuwe spinner op tel vir oom Piet se plank wat nou op is.
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