Flying with a foot in your mouth!

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Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby alanmack » Tue May 03, 2016 4:41 pm

Is-MISASA-in-distress.jpg
Hello All,

Perhaps, at times, one needs to stand outside the goldfish bowl to gather one's thoughts on what is going on in the bowl.

Please see the comment made by Athol Frantz who is the Editor of African Pilot, on his Facebook page. "Athol Terence Franz Shame on you John. The real problem is that if MISASA can get its act together like the EAA has done for years...."

Before I strongly object (and dismiss it as a knee jerk comment) please share your views.

Is MISASA in distress? If you feel that it is, then please share your views. All I can tell you is that you, the members, are served by a committee who would welcome the input of anyone willing to volunteer. We have just had two members join the committee and I really do believe that they will make an impact to the PRO portfolios that they hold.

If you feel that you need to benchmark us against the EAA then please do so. I ask however that you be factual. I for one have enjoyed nothing but constructive camaraderie with the EAA and place on record my thanks to them for this. The more we, as siblings of the Aero Club, work together the stronger we will be in meeting our obligation for service delivery to the membership.

Warm regards and fly safe
Last edited by alanmack on Tue May 03, 2016 5:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby John Boucher » Tue May 03, 2016 4:58 pm

I encourage input from the members... going to stand back and see what unfolds!
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby Air Hog » Tue May 03, 2016 5:44 pm

All I can say is that the boards members that we have is doing a lot in the back ground that the members don't know about. And all of this just for the love of flying. No salaries or perks!
I know this because I was member of the board for a short while.
The problem the board have is that they get very little input from their members. It is always a small group of pilots that are willing to help/assist or give input.
Please Guys and Girls. Remember they are fighting for your right to fly.
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby powerfly » Tue May 03, 2016 6:47 pm

Does he fly?
Does he have 1000hrs on trike
Does he have 1000hrs on LSA
if none of the above then ignore him...
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby p3tr » Tue May 03, 2016 9:26 pm

OK from where i'm sitting, we have RAASA, MISASA and Aeroclub. And maybe i don't quite see where one starts and the other one ends, or what the entire envisioned purpose is for any of these. But so far, every time some gnarly laws get thrown at us, someone from these organisations that look after us sort it out. I would not expect more from them than what they already do for us ( other than maybe a night rating :D ).
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby bobthebuilder » Tue May 03, 2016 10:26 pm

I know I don't do enough to support MISASA, but really do appreciate the hard work that our committee volunteer. Thank you to each and every one of you.

While I cannot criticise MISASA in any way, I could perhaps offer the following for consideration:

The EAA does have its act together. I'll give them that.
This doesn't mean that we don't have ours together though.

For those who dont know ....
The EAA consists of various groups, or chapters, as they're known, spread across the country .... or world, if you want to look at the bigger picture.
Each chapter will typically meet once a month in their area for the purpose of sharing knowledge and assisting their members with their various aircraft builds. It's rather informal and very social. Fly-aways and build site visits are usually well attended. They have their own award and trophy ceremonies. Members usually become good mates. They enjoy very active participation, that's where their success lies. (Now, let's all sing kum-bah-yah)
Misasa, while well run, is left to a handful of people. Why is this? Get the microlight community as involved as the EAA boys, and we could be just as strong.

Could MISASA try and mimic the EAA philosophy?
Split the membership into regions. Each region has a monthly social activity that is hosted at a different field in the region each month. We then have an annual gathering once a year where all of the regions get together. In other words, reinstate our shoot-out event.
Dish out some brass for the trike who's travelled the furtherest, the cleanest and neatest, among other stuff. We could even have a wooden spoon award for some petty violation of sorts. A closed, short circuit air race with pylons ... regions could compete, although Gauteng would obviously clean up, so you're wasting your time anyway. Not all of us are super excited about nav rallies. Make it cool, make it exciting.
Food for thought, maybe we should have a poll and find out what our members really want.

WCM, CCM, and LSA aircraft are supposed to be an affordable means to get the average dude in the sky. That is, it should be if we plan to sustain the sport, yet alone grow it. Could we perhaps rip a page from the Soaring Societies book?
Glider pilots are trained on club equipment at a small rental fee. Instruction is essentially free. A bunch of well experienced instructors with funny frilly hats volunteer their time to share their knowledge. This dramatically reduces the cost of instruction and makes it more accessible to the general public. Sure, there are some issues that would need to be addressed, but if the glider boys have overcome these challenges for years, why can't we?
We need to rethink the way we train pilots.

Ok, we partnered with the EAA, with some success I'm sure.

But! .... what if ......

Each and every one of us, at four or five years old looked skyward and dreamed of flight. We joined SAMAA and became RC pilots because that's all we were allowed to fly at that age. We learned about flight exactly the same way that Burt Rutan did. Model aviation was, and is, a stepping stone toward obtaining a pilots license. Why not partner with SAMAA?
Invite the model guys to our events. Flip! (Pardon the pun), offer them flips and try to attract their members into our fraternity. You could buy a used Aquilla trike for less money than some of the models on the market now.
Get hold of Bob Skinner. (SAMAA chairman) I'm sure he'd be more than happy to run an editorial in his magazine each month. There's an opportunity there to grow our membership and sport.

We also really need to drag Jay Hyde and the other Snake formation team boys out of hiding and get them to represent us at the airshows again. Promote the socks off the sport.
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby alanmack » Wed May 04, 2016 12:08 am

I agree to everything that you have said and lend my support to the "actioning" of it.

When I started the showcases at Tedderfield it was as a result of a challenge to the Aero Club to get us all together... When the challenge was not taken up I decided to do it. In 3 weeks we put it together and it was pilots from Empangeni, Durban, Gauteng etc such as Brett and Alex Rudd and the like that worked to serve to the point that they never even saw a plane on the day. BUT it showed that pilots of all types enjoy the company of each other.

Look at the latest MISASA idea. www.deals.misasa.org it features all forms of aviation and we have asked the Aero Club to promote it to all sub sections.

I do not recall exactly but some 10 years ago we had Provincial "chapters" of MISASA. The active clubs seemed to fade and the participation died. If the spirit can be rekindled then it should be fed!

Fly-aways and competitions are when we get together. Badges are prized for fly-aways and recognition should be given to competition pilots. I raised at the AGM the need for us to award Provincial colours and if we cannot we should start to award MISASA colours by Province and nationally.

We have "new brooms" in our PRO chairs and I firmly believe that leadership energy exists to get things moving.

Fly safe
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby nicow » Wed May 04, 2016 7:51 am

bobthebuilder wrote:I know I don't do enough to support MISASA, but really do appreciate the hard work that our committee volunteer. Thank you to each and every one of you.

While I cannot criticise MISASA in any way, I could perhaps offer the following for consideration:

The EAA does have its act together. I'll give them that.
This doesn't mean that we don't have ours together though.

For those who dont know ....
The EAA consists of various groups, or chapters, as they're known, spread across the country .... or world, if you want to look at the bigger picture.
Each chapter will typically meet once a month in their area for the purpose of sharing knowledge and assisting their members with their various aircraft builds. It's rather informal and very social. Fly-aways and build site visits are usually well attended. They have their own award and trophy ceremonies. Members usually become good mates. They enjoy very active participation, that's where their success lies. (Now, let's all sing kum-bah-yah)
Misasa, while well run, is left to a handful of people. Why is this? Get the microlight community as involved as the EAA boys, and we could be just as strong.

Could MISASA try and mimic the EAA philosophy?
Split the membership into regions. Each region has a monthly social activity that is hosted at a different field in the region each month. We then have an annual gathering once a year where all of the regions get together. In other words, reinstate our shoot-out event.
Dish out some brass for the trike who's travelled the furtherest, the cleanest and neatest, among other stuff. We could even have a wooden spoon award for some petty violation of sorts. A closed, short circuit air race with pylons ... regions could compete, although Gauteng would obviously clean up, so you're wasting your time anyway. Not all of us are super excited about nav rallies. Make it cool, make it exciting.
Food for thought, maybe we should have a poll and find out what our members really want.

WCM, CCM, and LSA aircraft are supposed to be an affordable means to get the average dude in the sky. That is, it should be if we plan to sustain the sport, yet alone grow it. Could we perhaps rip a page from the Soaring Societies book?
Glider pilots are trained on club equipment at a small rental fee. Instruction is essentially free. A bunch of well experienced instructors with funny frilly hats volunteer their time to share their knowledge. This dramatically reduces the cost of instruction and makes it more accessible to the general public. Sure, there are some issues that would need to be addressed, but if the glider boys have overcome these challenges for years, why can't we?
We need to rethink the way we train pilots.

Ok, we partnered with the EAA, with some success I'm sure.

But! .... what if ......

Each and every one of us, at four or five years old looked skyward and dreamed of flight. We joined SAMAA and became RC pilots because that's all we were allowed to fly at that age. We learned about flight exactly the same way that Burt Rutan did. Model aviation was, and is, a stepping stone toward obtaining a pilots license. Why not partner with SAMAA?
Invite the model guys to our events. Flip! (Pardon the pun), offer them flips and try to attract their members into our fraternity. You could buy a used Aquilla trike for less money than some of the models on the market now.
Get hold of Bob Skinner. (SAMAA chairman) I'm sure he'd be more than happy to run an editorial in his magazine each month. There's an opportunity there to grow our membership and sport.

We also really need to drag Jay Hyde and the other Snake formation team boys out of hiding and get them to represent us at the airshows again. Promote the socks off the sport.

Thanks for your input (^^) (^^)
I agree with you...
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby falconp1 » Wed May 04, 2016 9:12 am

Very well put Bob. (^^)
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby coline » Wed May 04, 2016 9:52 am

Hi Alan - a brave invite, but I will be positive!

Act as a "Fatherly, guiding body" For example - 12 pages of Ramp Inspection list and still no consensus. I would like to see Misasa tackle this not by quoting the law paragraph, but by conversing with the authorities to produce and agreed ramp inspection list for each type of scenario for clarification:
Weight shift Trike local flights -
Weight shift trike X country -
LSA fixed wing local flights -
LSA fixed wing X country -

If we and the inspectors now have the same list, there is no reason to ever be found wanting.

The same guidance can be exercised with respect to landing at Ultra city or Dragon peaks for example.

Finally in terms of safety, very little can be learned from CAA accident reports due to the extremely long time taken for them to be released. I suggest that because Misasa has their ear to the ground from the the start of these investigations they can issue a "Safety Tip" as soon as some info comes to light. Like "Guys, very important to safely stow your hanger cover when setting off for Fly in. Check it carefully during Pre Flight as the cover is prone to be pulled by the slipstream and may get pulled into your Gyro's Propeller cause sudden loss of power! or Guys - reminder. Pamphlet dropping is not permitted unless prior approval has been issued by CAA. Remember that pamphlets can block your engine air intake causing a sudden loss of power. - You get the jist.

Thank for all serving us1

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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby Tumbleweed » Wed May 04, 2016 10:45 am

On the first matter of flying with a foot in your mouth;

Some okes are so intent in living up to their self- appointed status that they are above what counts for the rest of us and throw tantrums and comments around without fear of reprisal or accountability. His comment of 'get your act together' has been used before and will one day be addressed to the wrong person lacking in diplomacy. I'll sponsor towards the legal fees.

He obviously has no idea what he is ranting about and who he is pissing off. The idea of foot in mouth is more like "dick head' sound more apt.

That said; comparing the structures and support of EEA and Misasa is unrealistic. We just fly recreationally, mostly around the patch and a handful of us on more extensive adventures. As seen at Klipriver breakfast, many get in and out quickly at various times so not as much social interaction.

The EEA is supported by builders, wanna- be builders looking for drinking buddies- nothing wrong with that, pilots who enjoy structured fly- aways and technical okes just thriving on challenges. Most of them- no disrespect intended, are pensioners or kids out the house with lots of time on their hands to drive to venues and enjoy talks and workshops, something microlighters don't do.

Their participation is their hobby- good luck to them, great company by the way- and not a commitment to upkeep and serve the silent masses.

I know most and previous Misasa committee members and have told them I believe I cannot add value as they are exceptional individuals more competent than myself and conduct the affairs more efficiently than I would. But I know how kak it is when challenged with something there is absolutely no support and often think" Why or who do I do this?'

So for me, if there is anything to improve on its gauging support for more expansive weekend fly ways like Numbi, Kalahari Bundu Bash where novices can trailer down and experience flying in new conditions with the confidence of flying with experienced guys. This support must come from the regions and the venues within 3 to 4 hours distance or with half way overnight facilities.

Then there's a misconstrued notion that because you pay an insignificant membership fee you insist on this consumer right of service, which is provided by volunteers. Its not 'where is my magazine' but are you prepared to give up your time travelling to attend meetings and functions.

Anyone bitching, nominate yourself to help out.
Last edited by Tumbleweed on Wed May 04, 2016 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby bobthebuilder » Wed May 04, 2016 10:49 am

This isn't the first time that Atholl has has a dig at Misasa. Wasn't there an incident at Rand Airport about two or three years ago?
I haven't bought his publication since.
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby John Boucher » Wed May 04, 2016 11:32 am

The dig at MISASA is a counter reaction to me taking him to task iro his uncalled for comments about respected aviation specialist - Jim Davis on his FaceBook page. I also made the comment that he would not be welcome at any of our future events whilst I was in the Chair of MISASA. Well, I have since removed only that part as it is a tad autocratic. I however have no doubt in my mind that the grater MISASA membership will support me with that comment...

Yes Byron, you are spot on - In the effort to get Aeroclub back on line and get them to listen to us ... MISASA members attended the AGM - Alan Mac spearheaded the address including matter ie Service Delivery. It was a serious wake up call for what was regarded as the old boys club at the time! A single vote was all that kept it in place, but our point was made and a new direction for the better was definitely taken!

We were branded as the "Disruptive Element from MISASA" ... this was but one instance - there are many many more!

A pertinent point I need to make is this - one cannot boast that you are promoting an organisation and then the next, beat the hell out of them with your sharp tongue! Donald, Rowena and I had a little brainstorm the weekend - way before this nonsense - that's just before he tries to claim the direction we are trying to chisel out as his bloody brain child! However we are facing and yes the most successful EAA as he conveniently associates himself with, others like SSSA and SAGPA and us are all facing a common challenge - the young membership tank is running empty and it ain't filling up! We don't have young blood coming into the sport!

It was seriously apparent the weekend in Mossel Bay that there is a very specific age group present in EAA, or at least that attended and a quick thumb suck would put most in the 50+ age group. One of our MISASA members from Cape Town made the comment that he grew up in front of the most that were present - where are the 20-40 age group that have to take up the reigns when most of us have gone for a permanent flip elsewhere....

As for the battle with AF, I have called for the AeroclubSA board to address and take the appropriate steps! Looking forward to that robust debate....
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby alanmack » Wed May 04, 2016 1:36 pm

Thank you for the comments all.

Checklists:
Eish! I tried to get consensus on this some years back. In the same way that chefs have difficulty in telling you how much salt to put in a stew our instructors too seem to battle with the idea that there is a correct ( can I use the word?) checklist. At that time I retreated and used the budget to print the sheet of stickers that we sent to everyone. ( The NO STEP, ON or OFF etc sheet).

Service Delivery:
As a Committee we are very aware of the need for service delivery. It should be demanded from us and from the regulatory and legislative authorities. I went "toe to toe" on this in finalising our constitution that is up for adoption at the upcoming SGM. The Aero Club represents thousands of pilots and we fly safety critical planes. No plane is more critical than the next. If our needs are not met we need to have a voice and it must be heard. Believe it or not this is what we do all the time. I believe that if you accept appointment to the MISASA Committee then you are and should be accountable to the membership for service delivery.

Strategy:
About 10 years ago, I think it was maybe before that but anyway in the days when Ronney Jack was the MISASA Chairman we had regional sub-committees. These ended up lapsing due to non-participation and we moved to a central structure. We have always been mindful of getting our regions represented. Our annual yearbook is a huge task. I believe that it is still the best idea as it requires an annual push for content instead of continuously begging for stories. Our two PRO appointments are a huge step forward and as a result I believe that we will in the year ahead improve on our membership communication. MISASA supports the Microlighters Forum as the correct place for chat and for airing ideas. Our website is for "about us" reports and for those new to flying. Current pilot members I believe need deals (www.deals.misasa.org) and they need quick links (www.links.misasa.org). Our Facebook page is for friends that want to track each other in the social media.

Your feedback is important. Thank you for the comments and to others - please have your say.

Fly safe
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Re: Flying with a foot in your mouth!

Postby John Boucher » Fri May 06, 2016 3:50 pm

What amazes me is that just when some form of admission of wrong doing may be forthcoming and one wants to believe it is an honest attempt...

Back to - do you know who I am, this is what I do and bullying the two unsuspecting ladies at the table for ID tags and admissions at Swartkops AFB this morning into some form of submission!

I cannot but help reiterating the embarrassment this man is for us and for AeroclubSA and that the MISASA Exco stands by its viewpoint!
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