Hi Len and others.
Thanks for what you are doing Len, although I am sceptical with regard the cost mentioned. Keep us posted. I am also concerned as, in a way, you may be opening a loop hole for CAA to enforce this on all of us...
Much rather that we found the solution within Part 141, regardless of the age of the pax Larry:)
Pierre, thanks for taking the time to comment. But you forget, I was involved in this long before you came onto the scene, so sorry, I am aware of what I am speaking about. I communicated with Neil not too long ago, and the status quo was still as it has been from day one..
What is interesting to note, is that the current CAR's make clear and concise mention of the word
Potential Student. I am sure you know this, but if need be I can refer readers to the exact law.
Now, herein lies the crux! The is as yet NO DEFINITION of 'potential student', and taking the initiative in this matter, and defining such that the person who comes to my school to do a 'scenic microlight flight' can be legally seen as a potential student would go one loong way to clearing things up.
Secondly, the exercises you mention,
do not form part of Ex 3. Kindly refer to the CAT's for clarification. They are part of ex 1 and 2. I have just re-read your post, and it appears you have noted and amended your post, so that is no longer an issue.
However, some-one sitting in the back seat, enjoying the scenery and taking photos , is
exactly what I want my potential student to do. This is exactly what they must do, to fall in love with flying and the view and the ecstasy and the beauty of it. That is the purpose of Ex 3, although written by beaurocrats and not poets, the meaning is clear.... To experience flight:) And yes, we do point out land marks etc.,
I am still of the learned opinion, that a Part 141 ATO is fully within their rights to take some-one for an introductory flight as exercise 3, as long as the following criteria are met:
1. The Potential Student fills out the standard administrative documention, and this documentation is kept for the legal 5 years
2. The Potential Student signs an authorisation sheet, ex 3.
3. The microlight used is on the Ops Spec File for the school
4. The instructor piloting the microlight is on the Ops Spec File for the school.
5. The Potential Student is made aware of the fact that they are undertaking the flight as a Potential Student. It is of no concern to me under what impression the pax arrived at the field. The important issue is, “Did the pax know, before they embarked on the flight, that they were joining the ATO to undertake lesson 3, Air Experience, and as such, they are a potential student for the ATO.”
6. The indemnity clearly states this intention of the ATO, that the pax is viewed as a potential student.
7. The flight is undertaken from the schools registered base of training.
At my school, the person responsible for the admin on the day, is responsible for the above. We do NOT issue tickets:)
It is a historical fact, that many, many pilots who are flying today, entered the industry from an introductory flight on a microlight. This fact alone substantiates my claim that all these folk who come and fly are Potential Students. The fact that the kid is 8 years old does NOT matter. I will still be here (God willing), when he turns 14 or 15 or 16 and comes back to start his training because of the flight he did with me when he was 8.
I hardly believe a court of law is going to find me guilty of an offence if my greatest sin remains an interpretation of my marketing material. I will market as I see fit, to get ‘feet through the door of my ATO’.. What is important is “Did the pax know BEFORE they signed the docs and joined the school...” They are welcome to turn around and leave if they don’t want to join the school. Fact is that no-one has ever objected to joining the school and doing Ex 3.
Concerning a de-brief, logbooks, progress reports and the such, I offer the following thought:
1. Ex 3 does not require a de-brief. What we do is socialise with our student after the flight. All they want is to share the exhiliration they have just experienced. That’s enough debrief for ex 3.
2. All my students are allowed to do a maximum of 3 lessons before they are obliged to pay an Admin Fee and open the rest of the file. ie, for these first 3 lessons, the only paper trail is the Potential Student Personal details and the indemnity. The rest of the stuff, progress reports, log books, Aircraft usuage agreement etc., comes later.. This works just fine, as some students do change their mind, either not continuing or moving to LSA.. So, they are all potential students!
Now, back to my basic argument, why not expend energy in setting a national standard, based on the above PLUS input from other ATO’s, for ATO’s to offer ex 3.. that would be money well spent ( I refer to my forced membership of AeCSA and MISASA)
Lets work together to find this very do-able solution. I note that somebody or somebodies are doing something about it.. Well, I've been doing Ex 3 intro flights for the past 15 years, I am a grade A instructor, owner operator of a Part 141 ATO... and I've heard nothing..
Kind regards.