African Pilot, Aeroclub and us "thugs" (NOT)

[John Boucher]

Well said all... It is definitely a serious wake up call for the establishment. I couldn't help notice the smirks and smiles when the vote went so close... sarcasm or was it a sigh of relief? For once our stand has been taken heed of and the comments thereafter just shows you that some persons still don't get the relevance of what transpired.

To AF... if you may recall that one of the pertinent points Alan Mac made was that we were not leading a break away, on the contrary, we were opposed to such talk because all we really want is to have fixed what is broken rather than start all over. That there are sub-sections contemplating that, is fact and not assumption as some may suggest. Maybe it also be wise that you and those that were praising the Fundi system sit down and have a look at the "mechanics" of it and realise that MISASA is the only sub-section that utilises it as it should be - hence all the discrepancies etc. But surely you were aware of this?

Your comments have placed you in the spotlight and now you are fighting the battles of those you so dearly wished to impress. Your exchange of words with GL pertaining to the yearbook, you mentioned that the only cost of the book was that of the printing which equated to some R 80 000 in the budget. You went on further to say that you made absolutely no money on the publication. This may be a play of words as I do recall a document where you called for "sponsorships" with pricing for adverts. Just a nice way of saying we aren't charging. I assume this should have brought in say at least R 140 000 to R 150 000? So, did you or didn't you make money?

Another point to note is that most of the airshows and events you attend have to cover your costs to get coverage in your magazine. So you in actual fact get paid "indirectly" for that article....

I thus say to you sir... if you wish to highlight other persons behaviour, you too come under the spotlight and I think you may have just misjudged the unity and brotherhood within the microlight fraternity and I don't exclude the Gyro chaps either as we have quite a bond with them too!

I think your favourite quote is :

You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

Truly wise words uttered by Abraham Lincoln

[Lone Ranger]

Let's just go a step back. 15 years ago, Misasa made a lot of noise on the Aero club board and agm, some similar matters, but mainly financial issues. We were the biggest outcasts and were called all sorts of names. As predicted, Two years later the Aero Club was technically insolvent and the good people (rats) started leaving the sinking ship. Even this was blamed widely on Misasa. Nobody attended the board meetings anymore and it was mostly accepted that the Aero Club would seize to exist. Misasa were the ones who said not a chance, this is a proud organization and we will get it back on it's feet. After a few months, Gliding, Hang and Paragliding and Aerobatics started to support our endeavor. Forensic audit, money recoveries, court case and lease agreements were the major things on our weekly meetings. Ten years later, when we felt that we had accomplished the mission, the Aero Club had over one million rand in the bank and was once more a proud and recognized organization. So for those of you rolling the eyes and having lots to say, go and get .........! The Aero Club is more our baby, now adult, then it ever will be yours and we will say and do whatever we feel necessary, not to repeat the above.

Regards,

Robert Gassmann

[John Boucher]

Thank you for that Robert - hear hear I say sir

[Splinter]

Let's just go a step back. 15 years ago, Misasa made a lot of noise on the Aero club board and agm, some similar matters, but mainly financial issues. We were the biggest outcasts and were called all sorts of names. As predicted, Two years later the Aero Club was technically insolvent and the good people (rats) started leaving the sinking ship. Even this was blamed widely on Misasa. Nobody attended the board meetings anymore and it was mostly accepted that the Aero Club would seize to exist. Misasa were the ones who said not a chance, this is a proud organization and we will get it back on it's feet. After a few months, Gliding, Hang and Paragliding and Aerobatics started to support our endeavor. Forensic audit, money recoveries, court case and lease agreements were the major things on our weekly meetings. Ten years later, when we felt that we had accomplished the mission, the Aero Club had over one million rand in the bank and was once more a proud and recognized organization. So for those of you rolling the eyes and having lots to say, go and get .........! The Aero Club is more our baby, now adult, then it ever will be yours and we will say and do whatever we feel necessary, not to repeat the above.

Regards,

Robert Gassmann

I can already see that being typed with the finger sticking up!!!

[Dobbs]

Two points -

Firstly, Mr. Frans' comments are nothing more than damage control - he needs to earn our respect, one email does not do it for me.

Secondly, and the likes of Robert Gassman, Alan Mac et al will need to pitch in here, but what is it about the Aero Club that is so important that it deserves all the time and effort that our MISASA leaders are putting into it to ensure that it survives. It may be a noble tribute to its effectiveness in years gone by that it is the second oldest club in the aviation world (if I have my facts right), but if it has run its race and no longer serves the purpose it did all those years ago, let it die a quiet, or noisy death. We then put something together that serves our needs and as importantly is self sustaining, i.e., it does not need constant time, effort and money to keep it alive.

And no, I am not just shouting from the side lines, I am happy to get involved either way.

[Guy Leitch]

Howzit everyone

With the other two fora I am involved in I don't really have time for another - but much as I try to stay out of GA politics I have been dragged into this fracas.

I have been advised that people dont understand the offer I was provisionally making about the Aeroclub's Annual report at the AGM.
Very simply - I reckoned that if i had the chance to sound out the market, I would be able to publish the annual report at no cost to the Aeroclub.
I reckon print costs are around R60 000 and i could sell R100 000 worth of advertising so I would still make R40 000 profit out of it.

I state for the record that I am intensely disappointed in the Aeroclub that they are paying African Pilot / Wavelenghts R60 000 to publish it last year AND AGAIN THIS YEAR. This despite the fact that I made my unhappiness at paying AF/AP abundantly clear to Neil de Lange at the Rand Airshow.
So now the Aeroclub is wasting my money and yours by paying AF to publish it NOT ONCE BUT TWICE.
I mean how stupid is that - they give him all the profit and say 'dudums don't worry - we will pay all the costs.'
SERIOUSLY WTF were they thinking?

[John Boucher]

Dobbs... I'm sure Alan Mac will give you the explanation you want.

Secondly.... ai tog, welcome to GL as well and putting pen to paper

[alanmack]

Mmm... why the Aero Club?

My Reasons:

Personal Reason No1. Nostalgia: Yes, it's that warm stuff that cannot be measured and which says keep your marriage if you can and fix it, keep your car if you can and fix it, keep your club, if you can and fix it. We have fixed it before and will fix it again. Mike Blyth formed MISASA at the request of the CAA. Would it not be nice for your kids to belong to the club that you too belonged to? Sometimes you have to manage up and sometimes you mange down but always you manage and do not run away - it's a personal philosophy.

Critical Reason No.1. Credibility: When we stand together as a unified voice representing all pilots no matter the type of aircraft we have credibility and critical mass. I have stood at the door of many public sector offices as have many that have gone before me and together we have, in the years that I have been involved, always gained entry to be heard and we have won the day on behalf of our members because we stick to the facts, we tell it like it is and we seek a win - win solution, always. None of our wins would I like to give back and as a splinter group I doubt that we would have won in the first place. We can, together, get it fixed and we must.

I could add ten more to each but my son is getting married on Saturday, we have a houseful and I promised JB that I would post a crisp answer - must go - am off to a rehearsal!

Fly safe

[John Boucher]

There are many things that happen in the background that the chaps who just want to fly are unaware of...

Let me give an example of one where I represented MISASA (and it's members) and assisted by Horace Blok, opposed to airspace changes in the George area. The changes would have made it virtually impossible for microlights, LSA, Gyros & NTCA to operate in the area and more specifically - flights from Mossel Bay to Knysna and vice-versa. The changes would have meant that aircraft would have had to climb out to 4500ft, route via the Robinson Pass towards Oudtshoorn and then eastwards. This would have posed a specific danger and unnecessary risk if conditions were not all that perfect. The CTR would also have made normal recreational flights in the Mossel Bay a nightmare. The paraglider chaps were there with their concerns and the parachuting guys that have a registered drop zone at FAMO. You would also not be allowed to route coastwise without a transponder. Now a simple telephone call to the tower prior to flight and off you get routed coastwise 500ft either way. If we had no input into this, the changes would have happened and would have been impossible to change. Regs state that all affected parties needed to be consulted before it could be effected. I am sure that most of you have day to day jobs and don't have the time to sit in meetings with all the bodies, CAA, RAASA, CARCOM, NASCOM, ATNS etc.

Herman Dormehl (our chairman) sits on a panel where the intricacies and dramas of ELT's and Tracking Devices are being thrashed through...

Persons within the MISASA fraternity are being identified for assisting the CAA with Accident Investigations. Some of us have had such training in the past and this program is once again getting back in swing as per request from CAA and managed by RAASA. As the ARO for microlights & LSA's, it is our responsibility to start living up
up to the requirements of the existence of the ARO and MOP. We assisted the Gyro guys to a certain extent and they now have theirs as well. Other sections have been prompted to follow suite. We have to take charge of our own yet still need a collective body when involved with the powers that be.

and so on and so on....

[Athol Terence]

Wise word Alan Mac and also John,

Together we will flourish, but divided we will fail!

As far as GL's posting is concerned, I have never read so much rubbish. Clearly he does not understand the dynamics of the Aero Club Year book. And for someone who referres to the Microlight pilots as "sub aviation pilots" on record said at one of the AeCSA annual awards functions.

But I rest my case now and I will continue to support MISASA into the future.

Regards,
Athol Terence.

[Leprachaun]

Whow , Athol what a sudden turnaround , first you bad mouth MISASA , then the farmers and now suddenly you want to sweetmouth all around , it doesnt work that way , I have done a rough calculation on the aeroclub mag , it seems as if you make a pretty penny out of that printing job , +- R60 - R85000,00 excluding the ads placed which could add a cool R160,000-00 - not too shabby I say , who shares in our hard earned cash ??? Why was the mag not put out on tender as Guy Leach asked ???
Who was sharing the profits ?????? Please answer that !
Well done Robert for speaking your mind at the AGM and here as well , I have a good mind to pay for half a year as I only had half a years value out of the aeroclub , Maybe we should do another Wally award to The Fundi supporters as well as the African Pilot , I have trashed every copy that i have had in the flight school , and will not support you again .
Further to add to my disgust is the aeroclub keeping quiet on the AP insurance which lapsed ???? yes all APs had insurance to protect / assist should a claim arise , I hope its sorted . Athol you really speak with a forked tonque !Leprachaun

[Leprachaun]

Hi Jorrie (witwillem ) ek het n plan , as julle weer spanspekke / watlemoene mark toe neem laat my weet , ek sal sy kantoor perseel opspoor en dan stort jy al die pap , en vrot vrugte op sy voorstoep -
Die beledigings aan die boere staan my ook nie aan nie , Leprachaun

[Athol Terence]

For those who don't understand the dynamics of producing the Aero Club's year book let me enlighten you.

GL has spoken a huge amount of rubbish, because he has never been involved in the production of anything involving the AeCSA and he is making assumptions which are not accurate. The actual printing only cost is R88+K for 4000 books of 76 pages at the quality of the 2011 book. Now please add some production costs for the work to get this book to print, say R40K - reasonable considering my staff and I spend many days preparing the book for the printers. We have to cover the balance of the out of pocket costs from limited advertising because we take the risk.

For the record GL did the same thing with the AAD 2012 Exhibitor's Catalogue where he complained that he had not received the tender, despite the fact that there was a 'read receipt' from the organisers. The tender was delayed by one month to allow GL to tender and YES you guessed it - he did not meet the second deadline. Then when he was called to ask why he said "I can't be bothered'. How do you think CAASA felt about the way he performed, especially given the fact that he did not personally attend AAD 2012? The aviation industry is getting used to this sort of behaviour from GL, especially given his lack of support and commitment for the very industry in which he operates.

To those of you who don't understand the publishing business, please accept the fact that printing costs are a significant part of the overall equation and as a result publishers profits are marginal. This is the main reason why I have chosen to take African Pilot into the digital on-line publishing arena, which I have successfully perused for the past three and a half years.

The whole concept of taking the AeCSA's year book was mine because I had published the previous thin annual reports for seven years and I wanted to make the sections of the AeCSA stand out more prominently in the future. The 2011 Year Book has its place in opening up a method of marketing the AeCSA and its sections including MISASA and this has not been contested by anyone.

I sincerely request that you all understand my full support for ALL the sections of the AeCSA over many years and that MISASA is very much part of this successful equation. My contract the production of the 2012 AeCSA Year Book that will now be called 'Sport Aviation over South Africa' has been confirmed and I undertake to produce a fine book that will be a significant part of your library. I have been in touch with Alan Mac for content as well as John Boucher and your MISASA chairman Herman Dormehl.

Regards,
Athol Terence

[kloot piloot]

This topic is slowly drifting off course but hopefully in the "better" direction.

I see Misasa's "disruptive" behaviour at the AGM rather as an eruptive behaviour.

It has opened up old unsettled issues, it is starting to open debate which has previously been ignored / surpressed and hopefully Aero Club (if the GM has ears) will use this to his advantage to do his job rather than trying to impress the membership with technology, smooth talking and denying inefficiencies.

A "club house for AeCSA" is a pipe dream, but it will be fruitless if the basic crisis in AeCSA is not fixed first:

1. the crisis of uninsured AP's which dragged on too long
2. the crisis of a Fundi system still needing a live "display" at the AGM after 1 year in operation and a subsequent request for patience while teething problems are sorted
3. the shocking revelation that an R 80 000 annual booklet expense is not put out on tender (or at least fairly negotiated between role players) but awarded in an ANC "jobs for palls" like style
4. an inefficient AeCSA administrative system robbing Misasa members of their magazine (printed and paid for by Misasa members)

I support the existence of an AeCSA, but listen to your members paying for your existence. Acknowledge the finely balanced 21/22 vote and start to prepare for what is a consumer based expectancy. Ignore it and you will become an even greater dinosaur. Because only dinosaurs had teething problems which lasted longer than a year ... and the Dodo if I'm not mistaken ...

[Dobbs]

Hi Alan, thanks for your comments, and all the best for the wedding

When a discussion is distilled down to romanticising history and loyalty, no further constructive debate can happen – and this is not a criticism, logic just does not apply when you talk about warm and fuzzy feelings. There may well be many others who concur with Alan on this, and that in itself is worth fighting for, and I respect that philosophy. I however, do not come with any of that baggage, I only belong to the Aero Club because it is compulsory. As an aside, I have had numerous email discussions with them about the whereabouts of my membership card, and the best that they could do was to issue me with a letter of good standing!

John, you mentioned some of the good work that you and others have been involved in, some questions –
Were you alone in fighting this fight, or were there other organizations involved, supporting your stance, such as AOPA?
I understand that as AOPA currently stands in SA, there is limited membership from the “microlighting” fraternity, and I don’t know if this is by design or more a history of the parallel emergence of microlighters with their own structures.
Surely one option would be to investigate whether joining forces with / joining AOPA would not better suit our needs.

The work that the likes of yourself and Alan and no doubt many others undertake to ensure, amongst other things, the freedom of flight in this country is often a thank less, frustrating and time consuming labour of love, and I just wonder if the means and effort justify perpetuating a lethargic, polarized organization – read Aero Club.