Mandatory Transponder poll

[John Boucher]

With the recent "Kindly take note of SA AIP ENR 1.6.2.3.2 wrt the compulsory use of a serviceable mode A & C transponder within and within the vicinity of SA controlled airspace. Please ensure that all aircraft operating within your CTR are transponder equipped. If no code has been issued to them they must squawk A2000 or A2600 whichever applicable" and subsequently withdrawn... I thought this poll would be enlightening and urge all users to vote & comment!!

[andrepieterse]

I don't have a problem with the use of transponders in controlled airspace and IFR flights.

[ZULU1]

John and others, the problem with making a transponder is not in the unit itself, the problem lies with the test equipment required. I am led to believe that Rainier is in the process of making a unit which should be affordable. Having used a transponder for a while, it certainly is a very nice piece of kit to have even with the high cost of them. Maybe Rainier can enlighten us more, if he's not making them then maybe we should head off to China and see what we can do....

[ystervark7]

What do they mean "within the vicinity of"? This might mean if you are close or under controlled air space you need a transponder as well in which case most of us will need a transponder.

Regarding the possible MGL transponder I under stand
1) A proof of concept model already exists
2) CAA will only allow certified transponders
3) certification is very expensive (we are probably talking about R100 000's or even millions)
4) That will basically make a local transponder out of the question
5) There is a rumor that a third party might certify it but then it will not be made in SA and I guess the price will also not be cheap any more

[Gyronaut]

I have transponders in all my machines. Yes, they cost a bomb but I like to tell myself the cost is justified based on the following logic. In the event of a mishap, they will be able to track me on radar to the point where I may require assistance one day. So I sqwauk A2600 (rotorwing) outside of CTR's below 1500' agl and feel comforted by the fact that someone, somewhere, is watching. Someone that will put Santjie White onto finding me if I go down.

Very comforting when you are alone over the Ceres Karoo in 35kt wind.

A secondary consideration is that we share the same airspace with other higher and lower qualified people/faster and slower aircraft than we are, lets all strive to a level of professionalism where we are welcome in controlled airspace (if our type allows) and behave as professionals (or as close to dammit as we can). Not easy to to do that without a transponder.

A mode S transponder under R10k would be a winner!

[John Boucher]

I agree with you Lennie...

The main thing one learns from the few responses thus far is that the guys are not anti-transponder... they are anti the expensive price tag! This needs to be looked at somehow or other.....

Should an affordable solution be provided we would have the participation we require or strive towards... I like the idea of Santjie watching over me. I know the argument is being used iro of TCAS equipped aircraft, but not all have this facility and then of course... pointless if the transponder is not switched on!

[ZULU1]

Chaps, It would be very desirable to make a unit and I do believe "Engineering wise" its very achievable. As pointed out its the cost of the test kit and also the certification program.

I ask a simple question: Do we actually really need to have them certified for a Non type certified aircraft ?

We can still squawk as per normal, do all the other good things and the unit will tick "All the right boxes" but not actually have gone through the certification process.

This may be a way forward and allow either ourselves or Rainier do make them or possibly anybody else with maybe all of us cooperating and pooling resources. It would be pointless for both parties to go into competition.

Maybe John on behalf of Misasa and the EAA investigate this.

Lets be honest a non certified device is better than no device at all...

Worth some further discussions.

Zulu1

[Bundy]

Morning guys,

Gyronaut has some really valid points, but I have to agree with John on the cost issue. I am definately not against the use of a transponder as it has many safety benefits around its use (both for us and the other aircraft we share the sky with).

However... lets just look at the financial side of things. A Gyro or 3 axis aircraft on average cost more that your std Aquilla/windlass and Aerotrike etc. For me to fit even a "cheap" transponder would be asking me to spend close to 10% of the value of my aircraft on a single device? Herein lies the problem for a lot of trike pilots Im afraid. (and what about paragliders etc). There are a lot of trikes around that are valued at less than R50K!

Flying any aircraft is becomming more and more expensive every year and this just adds to the problem. The question was "Would you fit one"
My answer was no. Considering that I very seldom enter heavily controlled airspace(FASK fly in earlier this year was the first and only time I have been in such airspace), I dont believe It warrants the cost. With regard to its use in SAR, there are other means to ensure you are located as fast as possible in an emergency.
I am glad it is not becomming mandatory... but for those willing to spend the money or for those who often enter these busy airspaces, I DO think it would be a good idea to fit one.

[skybound®]

Gyronaut - the feeling that someone may come looking is a false one I am afraid. Take for example in our PE Special rules area (airspace below the TMA) in many parts of it they are unable to pick up a transponder signal. Any traffic that is transponder equipped will be told to climb until such time ATNS can find you on their radar which is normally just before you hit the base of the TMA.

For a S&R device - would rather spend the funds on a PLB. So maybe a transponder with a PLB should be in the offing

[Gyronaut]

I agree a PLB is the best for being found; but it doesn't allow you to fly in controlled airspace. PLB/Transponder! Great idea.

I do believe (maybe wrongly) that if they played back the radar recordings they would be able to track you to the point that you 'dissappear off the radar' - best place to start searching then - no?

Maybe someone who works with this can inform us fully? I'd be quite keen to hear from an authority on the subject.

[KFA]

I also do not have a problem with a transponder if it is affordable. The issue with certification I believe is that a transponder is heavily relied on by ATC and IFR traffic as well as the larger aircraft TCAS systems and if the accuracy of the unit can not be gauranteed then they are unsfae to use in congested airspace. I think it is for this reason that they have to go through a certification process, but like many of you, I do think that certification could be made a bit simpler and hence cheaper.

[John Boucher]

My thoughts exactly KFA....

CAA needs to come to the party here!!! Instead of being part of the problem, become part of the solution!

[Bugwar]

My thoughts exactly KFA....

CAA needs to come to the party here!!! Instead of being part of the problem, become part of the solution!