Mandatory Transponder requirement

[justin.schoeman]

Hi Zulu1. I assume the costs will not be much different to make Mode-S transponders? One of the points Rainier raised, was that if everybody was forced to use a transponder, large parts of Jhb specicial rules would rapidly become saturated, and ATNS would soon be forced to require us to install Mode-S transponders...

[ZULU1]

Well unsure of the unit costs, I think the test equipment will be the issue...most probably very similar with current digital equipment. Regarding many machines in a certain area, Rainier is very correct SSR will have a pack of bees and just imagine all the TCAS alarms. Whereas a Mode S speaks when spoken to.. I can confirm that transponder clutter does exist. Three trikes flying together need two switched off..Ballito is a class example.

What is so interesting is that the same scenario existed in 1940..IFF !

When is the meeting and where is to be held ? Maybe I should make an effort and go with MISASA as I speak with most experience in respect of Microlights and the installations. Mode C and Mode S

[John Boucher]

The meeting is tomorrow Paul.... please pm me your new number as the one I have says it doesn't exist anymore...

Will call you

[mulderpm]

Thanks MISASA, John & Justin & Mervyn. We are holding thumbs that AeCSA will be succesfull. If not, there will be many aircraft for sale.

[Luan]

Good luck guys, your effort and time is much appreciated. Please keep us updated.

[Dobbs]

All the best for the meeting. We need cool heads and well thought out technical arguments, ala Zulu1 and Ranier's post on Avcom.

[BUKS VAN NIEKERK]

Eish

hope fully our guys are successful, otherwise circuit t & go is going to be the in thing

[justin.schoeman]

Just got back from the meeting...

Not much was actually discussed on the transponder issues. Kevin Storie covered most of the points in his opening statements, and ATNS pretty much said 'This must be referred to NASCOM', and shut down other discussions with similar responses.

The discussion on the 80nm CTA were very productive, and showed how much can be achieved when ATNS and the actual airspace users sit down together at the same table. Hopefully this model will persist, and there will be much more cooperation in the future...

I did have some rather interesting discussions after the meeting though. Two of the ATNS people said that Special Rules trumps general en-route provisions, and transponders are not required under the Jhb TMA. Unfortunately, two of their colleagues disagreed. The question has been referred to ATNS's compliance officer, so hopefully we will get an answer soon.

The other interesting chat I had was with Jeff ? (I will provide surname and exact position later - when I get the minutes) - one of the higher-ups at ATNS asked me why people did not want to install transponders. I explained that it was primarily a cost issue. When I explained to him that installing a transponder cost in the order of R25k - the same as the purchase price of an older trike, he was genuinely shocked. He had assumed that we could install second-hand transponders for R4-6k. I explained to him that the sheer size of the older transponders made them impossible to mount in many small aircraft. He said that he understood that it would just not be practical - hopefully he will add a voice on the side of alternate options at the next NASCOM meeting.

Let us see what happens...

[Percy Smit]

Thank you for the feedback. Great job and on behalf of all trikers that cant afford this ... thank you SIR.

[Bundy]

Indeed, thank you Justin for attending as well as all the others.

My thoughts are on AvCom...

Let's hope and pray sanity will prevail.....

[D2O]

Indeed, thank you Justin for attending as well as all the others.

My thoughts are on AvCom...

Let's hope and pray sanity will prevail.....

Likewise, thanks Justin and others for attending

I also put my thoughts on AvCom. I think most are in agreement, but some are forgetting who this affects most!

[Luan]

Thanks, gents!

[Nkwazi]

Feedback from yesterday's meeting.

Kevin Storie put a moer of a case forward for recreational aviation and should be commended for taking such a huge and unrelenting stance on behalf of Misasa and all the other sections of AeCSA. So below are some notes I took in the meeting.

Nascom ATNS meeting. 7/8/14


1. Proposed New JHB CTA is 80NM radius from ORT. Will look at keeping the 60NM areas in certain areas to accommodate different sections (gliders, paragliders, models) requirements.
2. Transponders required if aircraft is going to enter the airspace (11000ft to 14500ft) or operating within 2000ft below the airspace, ie. 9000ft - don't think this will affect us.
3. ATNS are being very flexible and accommodating Ito allocating airspace for gliders, paragliders. Prepared to negotiate on airspaces required.
4. All of this is pointless unless the transponder regulation is removed.
5. For now all aircraft under the CTR, TMA and CTA are illegal if not transponder equipped. The ENR 1.6 that made this law was simply pushed through. Kev Storie is adamant and confident that AeCSA will have this ENR reversed. After that no transponder needed unless you want to fly according to point 2
6. To make all of this go away we need to ensure that incursions into this airspace stop happening.
7. Buffer zones, transponders and alternate means of compliance (trackers) will be discussed in working groups going forward.

[mulderpm]

Thanks Gents.

[pit bull]

DAG SE,

baie, baie dankie aan Justin & nkwazi vir jul terugvoer.

dankie ook aan almal wat die ''vergardering'' bygewoon het, julle kan julle self op-die-skouer-klop

ek is nie op die stadium in S-A nie, sou dit graag wou bygewoon . weer eens dankie aan almal wat dit ''namens-ons- wat-vlieg''' bygewoon het

groete aan almal

veilig vlieg

pit bull