Buying a plane...

[RV4ker (RIP)]

I know of 2 going through the IF process at Moment.
RV10 and Lancair IVP... Plenty K@K

[TouchNgo]

Hey Stan,

just did a similar research exercise recently.

Discounting your flying need #4, and having a slightly smaller budget than yours, 350k all in, I narrowed it down to three planes:


Skyranger

Skyranger

Skyranger

Should be delivered before year end. :D

Greg

[loansharkblv]

Without hijacking the thread too much (might even help) Anybody know what the legal requirements are to have an a/c rated for night and IF conditions?

It can't be that complex, and surely, if you have all the right toys in place why the PT, it should just be a rubber stamp them (after testing and proving...)

[Morph]

CSI Pielit,

Why are you bothering with microlights. Your requirement is for full PPL licence and night and instrument rated plane.

Remmember something, marginal weather is not a 5mph wind, it's high winds, low clouds, rain, bad visibility. Both MPL's and PPL's would and should be grounded in this weather. The added weight of the GA type plane will help you in bumpy turbulent weather but unless you are instrument rated you cant fly if you cant see

My idea's
Jabiru J400 4-seater
RV's
Cessna 172 or greater
Piper Tripacer
or a Zenair 601 or 801 or 640

[loansharkblv]

And now for a MAJOR highjack...

Should be delivered before year end. Greg

Have you got anything to do with "LiveWire" services Greg.... Or are you building yourself?

[TouchNgo]

Hey Loanshark,

Nothing to do with LiveWire services
Captain Biggles is currently building my baby.

ps sorry for the continued hijack of this post, might add some value given that the Skyranger is well worth a look for an aerie meeting these requirements.

regards,
Greg

[skybound®]

Forensic Flyer, me thinks many of your suggestions like a Cheetah, Kitfox, Skyranger may all be a little uncomfortable for a 1000 km flight. It can do it, but is going to take a serious while. Even a C172 gets uncomfortable after 600 km.

I think you may want to refine your requirements list a little and indicate what you are willing to sacrifice, as it is almost impossible to get anything that is going to satisfy your current list.

For instance the Fun requirement is almost directly in opposition to the 1000km requirment. The one is recreational, and the other transport.

[RV4ker (RIP)]

CSI Pielit,
My idea's
Jabiru J400 4-seater
RV's
Cessna 172 or greater
Piper Tripacer
or a Zenair 601 or 801 or 640

I had similar requirments to CSI Piloooot, (other than having 4 kids so 6 seater would be nice). My short list was as follows;
Jabi J400, (Faster than others @ 125ish kts)
Partenavia P68 (I think) (RSA 200)
Yak 18T
C210 (Out of budget but would double as charter aerie)
Sting
Samba
Seneca (Out of budget but would double as charter aerie)
Baron (Out of budget but would double as charter aerie)

I "Settled" on the RV4 as I fly alone most of the time & (it faster and cheaper than any of the other 2 seat RV's). I do a weekly 400nm trip alone 95% of the time. It fits my mission like a glove and costs R450/hr all in. I have used the following for same;
C172, C182, PA28, PA28R and C210. They all cost almost double that of the RV, with exception of the C210 which was 4x cost and slightly slower...

The IF requirement is the biggest stumbling block. I would suggest that going PPL IF in short term is not clever. Can be done, but IMHO not clever. I still use Avis and airways when the WX is K@K. Given your tight deadlines I would get aerie as standby and use airlines and Avis to start with. Getting serious IR aerie (Autopiloot, WX radar etc) gonna set you back more than a bar and gonna cost plenty to operate. I was dead set of the Jabi when the R:$ went below R6:$1, thus making RV fit into my R500K budget.

As guideline check with school what aeries cost.
C172/PA28 will be in region of R750/hr
C182/Arrow will be in region of R1000/hr
C210/C206/PA32/light twins will be in region of R1750/hr

I happy to discuss the issues. I need to get from A to B often, so fast is better. RV dows 165kts. Jabi does 115kts. I have done 200hrs since I got it @R450/hr = R90K. @say R300/hr the Jabi would have needed 290hrs = R87K. Much of a muchness in my book. Jabi I could take kids along. RV is aerobatic and IMHO more fun. I look forward to every flight....

Mission vs Budget... 200hrs a year in a type certified aerie(Cessna, Piper etc) gonna cost more than double a NTCA aerie. My 2 cents... If not keen to import I would go Jabi J430. (The winglets look cool) CAA are happy with the factory and they are being used for night and IF (Hood) training i think. If there is an aerie which could "easily" get IF Ath to Fly in the future my money would be on the Jabi...

2c

[RV4ker (RIP)]

SOunds like a Lear Jet is the answer to ALL your requirements

Ground strips I wanna see..

[RV4ker (RIP)]

Without hijacking the thread too much (might even help) Anybody know what the legal requirements are to have an a/c rated for night and IF conditions?

It can't be that complex, and surely, if you have all the right toys in place why the PT, it should just be a rubber stamp them (after testing and proving...)

Check Avcom for thread on Trike/microlight Night flight. In theory it not a problem. Night Auth to Fly is easy. IF is more complex for some reason. I have spoken to a couple in industry to question why the problem and answer is same. Couple choice 4 letter words followed by CAA.

[justin.schoeman]

A little birdie told me that the SA Jabiru factory is applying for full certification of the J430. Not sure how accurate that is, but that would make it really easy to get it IF certified (although lack of anti-icing equipment would seriously limit IF work).

-justin

[Coyote]

If you find one of those aeries let me know? Maybe NetStar can find one!

Only kidding - In my humble opinion, a very good valued aircraft on the market at the moment for you budget is the Whisper Express (shortened wings), Russel has designed a great aerie and it covers alot of your requirements. Another great aerie is the Sabre JK05 (Dennis Southby - 0833299312) He is very helpful and the aircraft is amazing.(I have flown one) . There is still the RV which is just awesome.

[ForensicFlyer]

Ok - there is something you all seemed to miss...

I started with "PERFECT SCENARIO." That means that IF I could get my way, I would want everything described at the price I want to pay...

Everyone's been giving good advice...

I might be wrong about some things - remember I am NOT a pielot yet... Still learning as well - about planes and stuff, that is...

On the IFR issue... Imagine I do a 400 Km flight and get a weather report for the destination airport. On the way I realize they've made a mistake (they can, from what I've been reading) or a fog-bank sets in... I would need IFR to continue right?

Now, I am NOT talking about 60mph winds, cumulus clouds and snow - just NON-VFR (can't see the ground) kind of stuff... I am sure there's possibly no difference, but I am looking more for advice and suggestions...

RV4Ker - I only listed the planes that are listed in that copy - I think... It was exclusively ML's and nothing over 450 Kg in there.

On a PERFECT day, I would LOVE to get hold of an RV-7. I consider that one of the perfect planes for my application - IFR considerations ignored...

I also described the BEST of my needs. That does not mean it's AVAILABLE.

TouchNgo - The Skyranger seems rather interesting as well... Still hard to decide - so many options. And you're not hijacking the thread - thanks for your input. Skyranger does seem quite cool as well.

But RV4Ker is STILL winning in the points department at the moment. The only actual challenge will be price on the RV's. They are a bit pricy, but they are VERY COOL!

Morphster! Yes - I actually agree with you... But, there are three things that are important in that consideration:

1. Price
2. Budget
3. Money

I must be careful not to go off on a tangent. If money was no object, I would have looked at a TOTALLY different set of possibilities - like full rotary (Robby R 44, for instance).

Skybound - On the issue of distance, I am SURE I might never ACTUALLY fly 1000 Km. But how does flying 1000 Km in about 6 hours compare to 1200 Km by road in more than 12 hours with road-blocks, speed-cameras, road-works, animals, heat, etc?

On the issue of compromise, I would consider NO SACRIFICE on the following. I MUST get:

1. Two seater
2. Low maintenance cost
3. Ability to carry AT LEAST 250 Kg total
4. Fixed-wing aircraft (versus ANY rotary - no chance of that)
5. Below my budget of (about) 400K
6. Range (absolute minimum about 500 Km)
7. Local support

Other than that, suggestions, recommendations and ideas are MOST welcome...

What if I started a local poll? You all send me a list of possible planes to consider, then we run a poll to see what is the most voted one?

Eagle - more info on the whisper? I've read about it, and it SEEMS quite interesting...

Keep up the comments and suggestions guys - I am learning well...

Thanks again!

Stan.

[emil]

Ok - there is something you all seemed to miss...

I started with "PERFECT SCENARIO." That means that IF I could get my way, I would want everything described at the price I want to pay...

Everyone's been giving good advice...

I might be wrong about some things - remember I am NOT a pielot yet... Still learning as well - about planes and stuff, that is...

On the IFR issue... Imagine I do a 400 Km flight and get a weather report for the destination airport. On the way I realize they've made a mistake (they can, from what I've been reading) or a fog-bank sets in... I would need IFR to continue right?

Now, I am NOT talking about 60mph winds, cumulus clouds and snow - just NON-VFR (can't see the ground) kind of stuff... I am sure there's possibly no difference, but I am looking more for advice and suggestions...

RV4Ker - I only listed the planes that are listed in that copy - I think... It was exclusively ML's and nothing over 450 Kg in there.

On a PERFECT day, I would LOVE to get hold of an RV-7. I consider that one of the perfect planes for my application - IFR considerations ignored...

I also described the BEST of my needs. That does not mean it's AVAILABLE.

TouchNgo - The Skyranger seems rather interesting as well... Still hard to decide - so many options. And you're not hijacking the thread - thanks for your input. Skyranger does seem quite cool as well.

But RV4Ker is STILL winning in the points department at the moment. The only actual challenge will be price on the RV's. They are a bit pricy, but they are VERY COOL!

Morphster! Yes - I actually agree with you... But, there are three things that are important in that consideration:

1. Price
2. Budget
3. Money

I must be careful not to go off on a tangent. If money was no object, I would have looked at a TOTALLY different set of possibilities - like full rotary (Robby R 44, for instance).

Skybound - On the issue of distance, I am SURE I might never ACTUALLY fly 1000 Km. But how does flying 1000 Km in about 6 hours compare to 1200 Km by road in more than 12 hours with road-blocks, speed-cameras, road-works, animals, heat, etc?

On the issue of compromise, I would consider NO SACRIFICE on the following. I MUST get:

1. Two seater
2. Low maintenance cost
3. Ability to carry AT LEAST 250 Kg total
4. Fixed-wing aircraft (versus ANY rotary - no chance of that)
5. Below my budget of (about) 400K
6. Range (absolute minimum about 500 Km)
7. Local support

Other than that, suggestions, recommendations and ideas are MOST welcome...

What if I started a local poll? You all send me a list of possible planes to consider, then we run a poll to see what is the most voted one?

Eagle - more info on the whisper? I've read about it, and it SEEMS quite interesting...

Keep up the comments and suggestions guys - I am learning well...

Thanks again!

Stan.

I have just the plabe for you ..it can do all the above and better but not IFR yet.

give me a PM and come fly the Sting from FAWB

[Weg]

On the IFR issue... Imagine I do a 400 Km flight and get a weather report for the destination airport. On the way I realize they've made a mistake (they can, from what I've been reading) or a fog-bank sets in... I would need IFR to continue right?

No, if weather in front and behind you closes in, then you haven't been payin attention while flying. Weather is not something you phone about before you go and then forget about. You constantly re-evaluate it while flying so that your options are not IF. Finding an alternative airfield to land at is an option. Changing you routing is an option. I challenge you to find an aerie in your price range that you will comfortably fly in IF conditions. Not even worth considering. I personally feel that there are very few aeroplanes less than a Boeing size worth flying safely in any IF conditions (my personal viewpoint)